bring back the foot switch!!
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Nah, its too simple, practical and cheap to fix. You don't want to upset the mediocrity push do you? But, the two vehicles I have still use the foot switch. John--Las Vegas.
Originally Posted By: bmwjohn
well I hope you don't SEE the dimmer switch since that means you are looking at the floor! lol.
seriously, the column switch is sooo much better, esp. for a temporary high beam like a 30 second flash as you start into curve to get a better view, etc.
I contend that this is exactly when the floor switch is BETTER than the stalk. I just ride along with my toe on the switch, blipping from low to high very quickly as needed, never moving my hands on the wheel at all, even if I have to blip the lights during a turn. I occasionally move my foot over to the clutch to shift, then right back to the dimmer.
The ONE area where the stalk is better is flashing the high-beams in the daytime when the headlights aren't turned on. In my ideal world, that function would still be on the stalk and the normal high/low switching function would be on the floor.
well I hope you don't SEE the dimmer switch since that means you are looking at the floor! lol.
seriously, the column switch is sooo much better, esp. for a temporary high beam like a 30 second flash as you start into curve to get a better view, etc.
I contend that this is exactly when the floor switch is BETTER than the stalk. I just ride along with my toe on the switch, blipping from low to high very quickly as needed, never moving my hands on the wheel at all, even if I have to blip the lights during a turn. I occasionally move my foot over to the clutch to shift, then right back to the dimmer.
The ONE area where the stalk is better is flashing the high-beams in the daytime when the headlights aren't turned on. In my ideal world, that function would still be on the stalk and the normal high/low switching function would be on the floor.
Originally Posted By: Michael_P
I remember when I switched from a foot switch to column switch. I kept getting my left foot caught up in the steering wheel. I figured it out after a year.
That's still better than when the younger drivers get their fingers caught in the floor dimmer switch lol.
I remember when I switched from a foot switch to column switch. I kept getting my left foot caught up in the steering wheel. I figured it out after a year.
That's still better than when the younger drivers get their fingers caught in the floor dimmer switch lol.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
The ONE area where the stalk is better is flashing the high-beams in the daytime when the headlights aren't turned on. In my ideal world, that function would still be on the stalk and the normal high/low switching function would be on the floor.
That makes sense put the headlight switch and flash-to-pass on the stalk and the dimmer on the floor. But now we are getting to one reason for the dimmer being on the stalk, to eliminate separate switches. I don't really see the big deal about flash-to-pass. I rarely use it and it seems to me turning your headlamps on and off even if on low beam is good enough anyway. I suppose the floor switch dimmer could be wired so that when the headlamp switch is off the floor switch will flash the highbeams on and off, but when the headlamp switch is on it cyles the high beams.
The ONE area where the stalk is better is flashing the high-beams in the daytime when the headlights aren't turned on. In my ideal world, that function would still be on the stalk and the normal high/low switching function would be on the floor.
That makes sense put the headlight switch and flash-to-pass on the stalk and the dimmer on the floor. But now we are getting to one reason for the dimmer being on the stalk, to eliminate separate switches. I don't really see the big deal about flash-to-pass. I rarely use it and it seems to me turning your headlamps on and off even if on low beam is good enough anyway. I suppose the floor switch dimmer could be wired so that when the headlamp switch is off the floor switch will flash the highbeams on and off, but when the headlamp switch is on it cyles the high beams.
Originally Posted By: bmwjohn
My first car - ever - was a new BMW 2002 in 1969 and the flasher stick was one of many things so much better than the GM products the family drove (radials-Michelin xas, was another)and then adding 7" H-4 halogen headlights - Bosch, then Cibie, etc.
On a sort of related note about things being "strange" but better... I bought a used Porsche 968 back in 2000. The 944 and 968 had their cruise control controls (if equipped) as stalks like signal levers. I thought that was really weird, and awkward, and made no sense. When cruise control first came out I remember seeing some controls added to the signal stalk (in that particular 1981 Olds) but not a separate stalk just for cruise.
After using it a bit I thought it was genius. First - they were keeping the steering wheel simple. No electronics except horn and air bag. If you wanted you could swap out wheels for track day (or permanently) without a whole lot of electronic weirdness or loss of functionality. It also kept the slip rings and other tie-ins simple. Further, you pulled the stalk to cancel cruise, pushed down to set and pushed forward to resume. It was SO easy to slip a pinky out and cancel the cruise if traffic changed ahead. WAY faster and easier than groping for the cancel button, or tapping the clutch or brake.
After a couple of months of "weirdo" European cruise on the stalk I grew to love it.
My first car - ever - was a new BMW 2002 in 1969 and the flasher stick was one of many things so much better than the GM products the family drove (radials-Michelin xas, was another)and then adding 7" H-4 halogen headlights - Bosch, then Cibie, etc.
On a sort of related note about things being "strange" but better... I bought a used Porsche 968 back in 2000. The 944 and 968 had their cruise control controls (if equipped) as stalks like signal levers. I thought that was really weird, and awkward, and made no sense. When cruise control first came out I remember seeing some controls added to the signal stalk (in that particular 1981 Olds) but not a separate stalk just for cruise.
After using it a bit I thought it was genius. First - they were keeping the steering wheel simple. No electronics except horn and air bag. If you wanted you could swap out wheels for track day (or permanently) without a whole lot of electronic weirdness or loss of functionality. It also kept the slip rings and other tie-ins simple. Further, you pulled the stalk to cancel cruise, pushed down to set and pushed forward to resume. It was SO easy to slip a pinky out and cancel the cruise if traffic changed ahead. WAY faster and easier than groping for the cancel button, or tapping the clutch or brake.
After a couple of months of "weirdo" European cruise on the stalk I grew to love it.
Toyotas all have the separate cruise stalk. I like those. The other good cruise system is what my Jeep has, where the buttons are on the front of the steering wheel, where the horn buttons would be (if it had horn buttons, which are definitely better than the hit center of wheel type it has). That puts them just about under your thumbs normally, so it's easy to hit them at any time.
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
After a couple of months of "weirdo" European cruise on the stalk I grew to love it.
When I first drove a Chrysler product with the Mercedes-style small cruise stalk on the right side of the steering wheel, I also hated it. But after actually driving one for an extended time, it too works well. I still prefer buttons on the steering wheel, but there are multiple things that work well for cruise. I've got no complaints about many variations of how to operate cruise control, because its a luxury not a necessity.
However, I do think things critical to basic operation and safety (like headlamp dimming and headlamp switch location) should be more standardized than they are. Even if you're just talking about stalk-mounted dimmers and not even including the floor buttons from the past, there are still multiple variations today. My Jeeps have a push for high beam, pull for low beam, pull all the way for flash-to-pass stalk. The annoyance with it is that when the highs are on, the turn signal stalk is not in its usual position relative to the wheel. Most other cars have a pull gently for flash-to-pass, pull all the way to toggle low-beam or high-beam design, but that can be inadvertently turn on high-beam instead of flash-to-pass if you pull just a little too hard.
Now for another turn on the topic... Does anyone but me dislike bright blue as the high-beam indicator color? I can't stand blue indicator lights because they always look blurry and cause glare for me, but I know not all eyes are created equal. I really preferred when high-beam indicators were red (prior to 1977) and I switch my cars to red or amber with bulb covers because at least that didn't glare. But red is a warning color, not a reminder color... so why didn't the FMVSS require amber for example? Blue is just awful.
After a couple of months of "weirdo" European cruise on the stalk I grew to love it.
When I first drove a Chrysler product with the Mercedes-style small cruise stalk on the right side of the steering wheel, I also hated it. But after actually driving one for an extended time, it too works well. I still prefer buttons on the steering wheel, but there are multiple things that work well for cruise. I've got no complaints about many variations of how to operate cruise control, because its a luxury not a necessity.
However, I do think things critical to basic operation and safety (like headlamp dimming and headlamp switch location) should be more standardized than they are. Even if you're just talking about stalk-mounted dimmers and not even including the floor buttons from the past, there are still multiple variations today. My Jeeps have a push for high beam, pull for low beam, pull all the way for flash-to-pass stalk. The annoyance with it is that when the highs are on, the turn signal stalk is not in its usual position relative to the wheel. Most other cars have a pull gently for flash-to-pass, pull all the way to toggle low-beam or high-beam design, but that can be inadvertently turn on high-beam instead of flash-to-pass if you pull just a little too hard.
Now for another turn on the topic... Does anyone but me dislike bright blue as the high-beam indicator color? I can't stand blue indicator lights because they always look blurry and cause glare for me, but I know not all eyes are created equal. I really preferred when high-beam indicators were red (prior to 1977) and I switch my cars to red or amber with bulb covers because at least that didn't glare. But red is a warning color, not a reminder color... so why didn't the FMVSS require amber for example? Blue is just awful.
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depends on how bright the blue is. my current jeep, it fits in pretty nicely. the red on my old chevy was about the same brightness and was useful, but red also means "HEY! Warning!" and you wouldn't want to get confused.
My folks had a '77 toyota... it had a big blue rectangle but it was really soft--- so at night it didn't glare, but during the day you couldn't tell if it was on or off. It was beautifully matched to night driving, just useless during daytime gauge scan.
parents' 84 vanagon also err'ed on the same side of caution-- very weak blue glow.
OTOH I had a POS '86 escort with a brights indicator so harsh it was quite annoying.
Since the old chevy only had 3 spread-out indicator lights... gen (far left) highs (center speedo) and oil (far right) the location separated the meaning. with new cars having 37 lamps all clustered together, I'm afraid I'd miss the oil light if the similar brights lamp was already lit???
My folks had a '77 toyota... it had a big blue rectangle but it was really soft--- so at night it didn't glare, but during the day you couldn't tell if it was on or off. It was beautifully matched to night driving, just useless during daytime gauge scan.
parents' 84 vanagon also err'ed on the same side of caution-- very weak blue glow.
OTOH I had a POS '86 escort with a brights indicator so harsh it was quite annoying.
Since the old chevy only had 3 spread-out indicator lights... gen (far left) highs (center speedo) and oil (far right) the location separated the meaning. with new cars having 37 lamps all clustered together, I'm afraid I'd miss the oil light if the similar brights lamp was already lit???
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My Jeep has the pull half-way for flash to pass, longer pull for high beams setup, as does my mom's. I much prefer that to the push for high beams, pull for flash to pass that a lot of Asian cars have, as that moves the turn signals too far away with the high beams on.
I don't mind the blue for high beams, but I do plan on modding my gauge cluster so the high beam indicator and especially the way-too-bright turn signal indicators dim with the gauge brightness adjustment.
As far as not noticing indicator lights, I think it was smart of Jeep to include a warning chime. If the check gauges light comes on (indicating very low voltage, low OP or high coolant temp) or the low fuel light comes on, it gives one loud ding (different from the seatbelt/headlights on chime) to make sure you notice.
I don't mind the blue for high beams, but I do plan on modding my gauge cluster so the high beam indicator and especially the way-too-bright turn signal indicators dim with the gauge brightness adjustment.
As far as not noticing indicator lights, I think it was smart of Jeep to include a warning chime. If the check gauges light comes on (indicating very low voltage, low OP or high coolant temp) or the low fuel light comes on, it gives one loud ding (different from the seatbelt/headlights on chime) to make sure you notice.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
After a couple of months of "weirdo" European cruise on the stalk I grew to love it.
When I first drove a Chrysler product with the Mercedes-style small cruise stalk on the right side of the steering wheel, I also hated it. But after actually driving one for an extended time, it too works well. I still prefer buttons on the steering wheel, but there are multiple things that work well for cruise. I've got no complaints about many variations of how to operate cruise control, because its a luxury not a necessity.
This is exactly how it was configured - small stalk on the right side of the wheel. It was a simple, all-aluminum stalk IIRC - pull to cancel, push to resume, down to set.
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
After a couple of months of "weirdo" European cruise on the stalk I grew to love it.
When I first drove a Chrysler product with the Mercedes-style small cruise stalk on the right side of the steering wheel, I also hated it. But after actually driving one for an extended time, it too works well. I still prefer buttons on the steering wheel, but there are multiple things that work well for cruise. I've got no complaints about many variations of how to operate cruise control, because its a luxury not a necessity.
This is exactly how it was configured - small stalk on the right side of the wheel. It was a simple, all-aluminum stalk IIRC - pull to cancel, push to resume, down to set.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
I've never seen a foot operated high beam switch. It sounds more cumbersome than the switch on the steering column.
You must be a "young" person
I've never seen a foot operated high beam switch. It sounds more cumbersome than the switch on the steering column.
You must be a "young" person
Originally Posted By: Russell
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
I've never seen a foot operated high beam switch. It sounds more cumbersome than the switch on the steering column.
You must be a "young" person
Were they ever on anything other than American cars? That's another possible reason for lack of exposure...
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
I've never seen a foot operated high beam switch. It sounds more cumbersome than the switch on the steering column.
You must be a "young" person
Were they ever on anything other than American cars? That's another possible reason for lack of exposure...
We finally griped enough on our website a vendor started making them for the GMT-900 trucks
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
After a couple of months of "weirdo" European cruise on the stalk I grew to love it.
When I first drove a Chrysler product with the Mercedes-style small cruise stalk on the right side of the steering wheel, I also hated it. But after actually driving one for an extended time, it too works well. I still prefer buttons on the steering wheel, but there are multiple things that work well for cruise. I've got no complaints about many variations of how to operate cruise control, because its a luxury not a necessity.
This is exactly how it was configured - small stalk on the right side of the wheel. It was a simple, all-aluminum stalk IIRC - pull to cancel, push to resume, down to set.
I think the difference is that the Benz/Chrysler one (now no longer used by Chrysler) is that the stalk was on the wheel and rotated with it, rather than fixed on the column. It was the rotating with the wheel that I thought I'd hate, but ultimately came to get along with just fine.
OT: its interesting to me that one other "Chrysler" feature that I just hated also came from Benz- a door remote/SKIS combination that could have stayed in your pocket and let you push a button... but NO, you had to actually stick it in the dash and use it like a traditional key. What the heck were they smoking? Worst of both worlds, there.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
After a couple of months of "weirdo" European cruise on the stalk I grew to love it.
When I first drove a Chrysler product with the Mercedes-style small cruise stalk on the right side of the steering wheel, I also hated it. But after actually driving one for an extended time, it too works well. I still prefer buttons on the steering wheel, but there are multiple things that work well for cruise. I've got no complaints about many variations of how to operate cruise control, because its a luxury not a necessity.
This is exactly how it was configured - small stalk on the right side of the wheel. It was a simple, all-aluminum stalk IIRC - pull to cancel, push to resume, down to set.
I think the difference is that the Benz/Chrysler one (now no longer used by Chrysler) is that the stalk was on the wheel and rotated with it, rather than fixed on the column. It was the rotating with the wheel that I thought I'd hate, but ultimately came to get along with just fine.
OT: its interesting to me that one other "Chrysler" feature that I just hated also came from Benz- a door remote/SKIS combination that could have stayed in your pocket and let you push a button... but NO, you had to actually stick it in the dash and use it like a traditional key. What the heck were they smoking? Worst of both worlds, there.
^ FYI, the Toyota stalks rotate with the wheel too.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I think the difference is that the Benz/Chrysler one (now no longer used by Chrysler) is that the stalk was on the wheel and rotated with it, rather than fixed on the column. It was the rotating with the wheel that I thought I'd hate, but ultimately came to get along with just fine.
Ahhh, you're right. The stalks on the Porsche were not on the wheel, making changing of the wheel easy (leaving all of the stalks and controls in the same place except for the horn of course). So this means that you could fit a Momo/Sparco/whatever wheel without losing any functionality.
I think the difference is that the Benz/Chrysler one (now no longer used by Chrysler) is that the stalk was on the wheel and rotated with it, rather than fixed on the column. It was the rotating with the wheel that I thought I'd hate, but ultimately came to get along with just fine.
Ahhh, you're right. The stalks on the Porsche were not on the wheel, making changing of the wheel easy (leaving all of the stalks and controls in the same place except for the horn of course). So this means that you could fit a Momo/Sparco/whatever wheel without losing any functionality.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
I've never seen a foot operated high beam switch. It sounds more cumbersome than the switch on the steering column.
My God. I guess I'm really getting old, it never even crossed my mind that there are drivers out there who have never even SEEN a dimmer switch.
I will be 30 this May and until this very moment had never before heard of this foot switch in my life! heh.
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
I've never seen a foot operated high beam switch. It sounds more cumbersome than the switch on the steering column.
My God. I guess I'm really getting old, it never even crossed my mind that there are drivers out there who have never even SEEN a dimmer switch.
I will be 30 this May and until this very moment had never before heard of this foot switch in my life! heh.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
My God. I guess I'm really getting old, it never even crossed my mind that there are drivers out there who have never even SEEN a dimmer switch.
WOW...me either!! Ya, this getting old thing really sucks, doesn't it!!
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
I will be 30 this May and until this very moment had never before heard of this foot switch in my life! heh.
Come on Craig, really? Never heard the joke about them bringing them back because too many Newfies were getting their feet tangled in the steering wheel?
My God. I guess I'm really getting old, it never even crossed my mind that there are drivers out there who have never even SEEN a dimmer switch.
WOW...me either!! Ya, this getting old thing really sucks, doesn't it!!
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
I will be 30 this May and until this very moment had never before heard of this foot switch in my life! heh.
Come on Craig, really? Never heard the joke about them bringing them back because too many Newfies were getting their feet tangled in the steering wheel?
Hmmm.. let's see, I had 5 cars with foot beam switches. Kachunk! high beam, Kachunk, low beam...
I should start a thread about outside door handles with a push button to open the car door. I have them on my current car. Recently, a friend of my son's was a bit flummoxed by them.
I should start a thread about outside door handles with a push button to open the car door. I have them on my current car. Recently, a friend of my son's was a bit flummoxed by them.
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