BMW 0W12

[edyvw]

BMW has always been better at engineering and manufacturing gasoline rather than Diesel engines. Traditionally, Daimler-Benz has been better at Diesel engines. At least, that's my opinion.


Please explain what's "obvious".

BMW was a leader in diesel engines since 1998, when the M57 was introduced. MB had very good engines, but BMW really made a huge leap over all Euro manufacturers with their Common Rail generation that started in 1998. Part of the reason why VW decided to cheat is that CR, introduced by FIAT and BMW around the same time, worked so well that they had to switch from PD to CR, and they were behind.
All that fell thru in 2015 when VW screwed things up.

 

[kschachn]

BMW has always been better at engineering and manufacturing gasoline rather than Diesel engines. Traditionally, Daimler-Benz has been better at Diesel engines. At least, that's my opinion.


Please explain what's "obvious".

And here I thought he was an EU genius

 

[Eugenius]

And here I thought he was an EU genius

Incorrect thought, nothing to do with EU


Motul 0W30 LL01FE is a good choice who wants keep LL01FE but use more stout oil than the BMW counterpart, and it is full-SAPS

Also cheaper

 

[Eugenius]

Please explain what's "obvious".

Do I need to highlight in the VOA?

Your indirect message that VOA wont tell you about the oil performance and oil capability is a known fact, you don't need to be secretly sarcastic about it.

kschachn has said it probably a million times. Are you btw kschachn? As started being very "obvious" someone is hiding behind "invisible"

In Europe, BMW has sold more diesel engines than gasoline engines for only 15 years, and I am being generous.

yep, In Europe it was always diesel a priority for car manufactures since WWII, as prices for fuel was always a lot higher than in USA. So with diesel prices comparable to gasoline, it was always no brainier choice in Europe as diesel gets more MPG.

 

[edyvw]

Do I need to highlight in the VOA?

Your indirect message that VOA wont tell you about the oil performance and oil capability is a known fact, you don't need to be secretly sarcastic about it.

kschachn has said it probably a million times. Are you btw kschachn? As started being very "obvious" someone is hiding behind "invisible"

yep, In Europe it was always diesel a priority for car manufactures since WWII, as prices for fuel was always a lot higher than in USA. So with diesel prices comparable to gasoline, it was always no brainier choice in Europe as diesel gets more MPG.

I told you oil looks like LL12FE. I really didn’t pay attention to Castrol versions of TPT. I personally would never use them in light of the fact that there are so many other really good oils.

As for diesel’s, they became uber popular in Europe only after Audi introduced TDI in Audi 80 in 1990. Until then, it was fuel reserved for people who spend their lives on the road or taxi. And even that is only after VW made diesel popular in Golf I and really became household name in Golf II 1.6 d and TD.
In reality, diesels in Europe were only having majority of the market since maybe 1995-1996 until 2015. France is only exception because there was hige discrepancy between cost of diesel and gas and they became popular maybe in mid 80’s.

 

[Eugenius]

I told you oil looks like LL12FE. I really didn’t pay attention to Castrol versions of TPT. I personally would never use them in light of the fact that there are so many other really good oils.
.

Not arguing there, also planning to move to something more stout.

As for diesel’s, they became uber popular in Europe only after Audi introduced TDI in Audi 80 in 1990. Until then, it was fuel reserved for people who spend their lives on the road or taxi. And even that is only after VW made diesel popular in Golf I and really became household name in Golf II 1.6 d and TD.
In reality, diesels in Europe were only having majority of the market since maybe 1995-1996 until 2015. France is only exception because there was hige discrepancy between cost of diesel and gas and they became popular maybe in mid 80’s.

Basically started in 70s the migration to diesel, after the oil crisis

After global crude prices spiked, France decided to swear off using diesel for electricity and built a fleet of nuclear plants. Germany, similarly, switched from oil to natural gas for heating. When the crisis subsided, Europe's refiners were still producing lots of diesel with no buyers. So governments began urging automakers like Peugeot to look into diesel-powered vehicles.

 

[edyvw]

Not arguing there, also planning to move to something more stout.



Basically started in 70s the migration to diesel, after the oil crisis

VW introduced 1.5d in Golf I as a result of the oil crisis. But, very soon, gas went down, and don't forget, gas back then, even in Europe, was cheap. In 1981, you had a huge oil price crash when the barrel was $3. Diesels were loud, smoked, etc.
In 1990, TDI in Audi introduced speed in small diesel engines. And that was a game changer. It really took off then. Yes, you had numerous Mercedes, as diesel was basically reserved for traveling merchants and taxi drivers, but it was not nearly as popular as it became in the 1990s. In the 1990s, EU countries introduced VAT, and fuel started to become really expensive.
As much as VW was responsible for making diesel popular among the masses, it also killed diesel in Europe. If anyone is responsible for the acceptance of EVs, it is VW.

 

[SureshR]

Might be worth a look - it explicitly says that they work to reduce fuel dilution at high temperatures

MOTUL HYBRID 0W-12 - Motul

MOTUL HYBRID 0W-12 100% Synthetic "Fuel Economy" engine oil specially designed for Hybrid Electric Vehicles (H.E.V) and Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicl

www.motul.com

Interesting figures even with a 2.1 hths

 

[edyvw]

Might be worth a look - it explicitly says that they work to reduce fuel dilution at high temperatures

MOTUL HYBRID 0W-12 - Motul

MOTUL HYBRID 0W-12 100% Synthetic "Fuel Economy" engine oil specially designed for Hybrid Electric Vehicles (H.E.V) and Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicl

www.motul.com

Interesting figures even with a 2.1 hths

View attachment 209184

For BMW owner, no, it is not worth of look as it does not carry LL22.
I would be sure it is approved to use such thin, low HTHS oil.

 

[chris719]

For BMW owner, no, it is not worth of look as it does not carry LL22.
I would be sure it is approved to use such thin, low HTHS oil.

For sure, I would be hesitant to use even BMW’s 0W-12 long term if I didn’t lease said car.

 

[edyvw]

For sure, I would be hesitant to use even BMW’s 0W-12 long term if I didn’t lease said car.

Absolutely.

 

[Revving2Redline]

View attachment 208200

Maybe the 0w12 is for the door hinges and they just forgot to deviate.

 

[svenson]

Not arguing there, also planning to move to something more stout.



Basically started in 70s the migration to diesel, after the oil crisis

i remember a lot of diesel mercedes -not taxis or other vehicles for professional drivers- -on the street back at the '80s ,but only mercs from german brands.
some countries and cities also ,back then in europe, prohibited diesel engines bcs of environmental issues .

 

[Eugenius]

Found another oil analysis from another lab, the report is very close to BS
if edyvw says it looks like LL12FE, maybe BMW just rebranded LL12FE as LL01FE, but who knows

 

[edyvw]

Found another oil analysis from another lab, the report is very close to BS
if edyvw says it looks like LL12FE, maybe BMW just rebranded LL12FE as LL01FE, but who knows

View attachment 209324

Just because additive pack looks like this, doesn’t mean that SA level is not above 1%. You have very similar additive packages with % level spanning between 1.1% and 1.4%. Sometimes we talk same additive package from same company.
Considering that BMW considers LL01FE as Full-SAPS, I would take their word.

 

[chris719]

Just because additive pack looks like this, doesn’t mean that SA level is not above 1%. You have very similar additive packages with % level spanning between 1.1% and 1.4%. Sometimes we talk same additive package from same company.
Considering that BMW considers LL01FE as Full-SAPS, I would take their word.

LL01FE is a full SAPS spec but does it have minimums? I would imagine you could pass the tests with an "LL12FE" oil. I have to say that my own analysis of the LL01FE oil looked the same and does seem to be mid SAPS levels of ZDDP and detergents. This oil is API SP licensed and 30 grade, so it must have 0.06 - 0.08% phosphorous, and it is very close to that upper limit. I sometimes wonder if BMW does this in North America because dealers seem to fill every car with this oil and it's now safe for cars with GPF.

 

[edyvw]

LL01FE is a full SAPS spec but does it have minimums? I would imagine you could pass the tests with an "LL12FE" oil. I have to say that my own analysis of the LL01FE oil looked the same and does seem to be mid SAPS levels of ZDDP and detergents. This oil is API SP licensed and 30 grade, so it must have 0.06 - 0.08% phosphorous, and it is very close to that upper limit. I sometimes wonder if BMW does this in North America because dealers seem to fill every car with this oil and it's now safe for cars with GPF.

Could be that they are just playing it safe.

 

[tvaughn]

I am genuinely curious about how the B58 would work with regular track days and the usage of this oil, I presume some people send it and don't think twice.

 

[chris719]

I am genuinely curious about how the B58 would work with regular track days and the usage of this oil, I presume some people send it and don't think twice.

I don't think any B58 TU2 cars with 0W-12 are models that would have seen the track yet. Probably coming soon though.

 

[tvaughn]

I don't think any B58 TU2 cars with 0W-12 are models that would have seen the track yet. Probably coming soon though.

Well this or the 20 weight for that matter.