Better FE with 10-30 than 5w-30
- Thread starter 06VtecV6
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
I would like more information on this. Can you provide me some links on here or elsewhere?
Just take the guy's word for it. It's exactly what you want to hear so run with it.
LOL
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
I would like more information on this. Can you provide me some links on here or elsewhere?
Just take the guy's word for it. It's exactly what you want to hear so run with it.
LOL
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
Guys, I wouldn't have believed it unless I just saw it unfold and and bloom this past few weeks. I'm on (and been using 5w weight to the exclusion of 10w FOREVER) a 5w-30 fill and getting no better then about 17.xx mpg. Ever since I topped off with 10-30 PYB, that mileage has creeped up to about 19.1 mpg!
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-advanced-fuel-economy
Originally Posted By: Mobil
Low viscosity, advanced full synthetic formula
Helps increase engine efficiency and improve fuel economy, based on 0.2-2.3 percent potential fuel economy improvement obtained by switching from higher viscosity oils to a 0W-20 or 0W-30 grade. Actual savings are dependent upon vehicle/engine type, outside temperature, driving conditions and your current motor oil viscosity.
17Mpg 0.2-2.3% improvement = 17.034-17.39Mpg and that's going to a DIFFERENT grade of oil designed to increase fuel economy.
You are claiming roughly a 12% fuel economy gain on the SAME grade simply by adding an oil with a slightly inferior winter rating.
This is called "junk science" and has absolutely ZERO value.
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
Guys, I wouldn't have believed it unless I just saw it unfold and and bloom this past few weeks. I'm on (and been using 5w weight to the exclusion of 10w FOREVER) a 5w-30 fill and getting no better then about 17.xx mpg. Ever since I topped off with 10-30 PYB, that mileage has creeped up to about 19.1 mpg!
https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-advanced-fuel-economy
Originally Posted By: Mobil
Low viscosity, advanced full synthetic formula
Helps increase engine efficiency and improve fuel economy, based on 0.2-2.3 percent potential fuel economy improvement obtained by switching from higher viscosity oils to a 0W-20 or 0W-30 grade. Actual savings are dependent upon vehicle/engine type, outside temperature, driving conditions and your current motor oil viscosity.
17Mpg 0.2-2.3% improvement = 17.034-17.39Mpg and that's going to a DIFFERENT grade of oil designed to increase fuel economy.
You are claiming roughly a 12% fuel economy gain on the SAME grade simply by adding an oil with a slightly inferior winter rating.
This is called "junk science" and has absolutely ZERO value.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Lex94
"Ain't no way this formulation does improve fuel economy by 12%"
In a higher friction engine, PYB 10w30 does...That's the point.
Have you actually tried it? It only costs you about 20 bucks and a hour of your time.
Actually that's not the point, if it was, Pennzoil would be advertising it. Heck, if they could gain 12% fuel economy, that puts Mobil's AFE lineup to SHAME as per the 0.2-2% gain Mobil claims I posted earlier. And that's going from a HEAVIER grade!
In a game where manufacturers are chasing 10th's of a MPG via the significant reduction of viscosity, if they could all just swap in PYB 10w-30 and gain 12% they'd be all over it!
So either the thousands of engineers working on fuel economy gains are all morons and the folks at SOPUS are equally stupid for not advertising this "feature" or it is, as most of us have already figured out, junk science.
"Ain't no way this formulation does improve fuel economy by 12%"
In a higher friction engine, PYB 10w30 does...That's the point.
Have you actually tried it? It only costs you about 20 bucks and a hour of your time.
Actually that's not the point, if it was, Pennzoil would be advertising it. Heck, if they could gain 12% fuel economy, that puts Mobil's AFE lineup to SHAME as per the 0.2-2% gain Mobil claims I posted earlier. And that's going from a HEAVIER grade!
In a game where manufacturers are chasing 10th's of a MPG via the significant reduction of viscosity, if they could all just swap in PYB 10w-30 and gain 12% they'd be all over it!
So either the thousands of engineers working on fuel economy gains are all morons and the folks at SOPUS are equally stupid for not advertising this "feature" or it is, as most of us have already figured out, junk science.
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Originally Posted By: bbhero
Ohh and by the way 2015 PSD you are a great guy to have on here. That was AWESOME what you did for BlueOvalFitter. Very glad that you are on here. Along with others too.
Ohh and by the way 2015 PSD you are a great guy to have on here. That was AWESOME what you did for BlueOvalFitter. Very glad that you are on here. Along with others too.
Supporting OVERKILL's (and Mobil's) statements, I think this chart was pulled from one of the GF-6 slide packs, showing what sort of economy gains could be anticipated from different viscosity ranges (against a 15W40 backstop).
The entire spread across the ACEA/API 5W30s is expected to be 1.5% max...broaden it to the extremes of the 0W20, and it's 2.5 max.
The entire spread across the ACEA/API 5W30s is expected to be 1.5% max...broaden it to the extremes of the 0W20, and it's 2.5 max.
Originally Posted By: Lex94
"Ain't no way this formulation does improve fuel economy by 12%"
In a higher friction engine, PYB 10w30 does...That's the point.
Have you actually tried it? It only costs you about 20 bucks and a hour of your time.
And being it is the Supra engine but NA, it is indeed a high friction engine. doh, self explanatory. I am fixing to do a full OCI of PYB 10-30. I am looking over datasheets now of all these oils and seeing how remarkable pyb 10-30 is for a conventional often exceeding the specs of the synthetics.
Originally Posted By: Lex94
In a high friction engine, pyb 10w30 formulation will give you much better fuel economy...do you even understand the concept?
They have nary a nil of a clue. you got a 94 Sc or Ls?
"Ain't no way this formulation does improve fuel economy by 12%"
In a higher friction engine, PYB 10w30 does...That's the point.
Have you actually tried it? It only costs you about 20 bucks and a hour of your time.
And being it is the Supra engine but NA, it is indeed a high friction engine. doh, self explanatory. I am fixing to do a full OCI of PYB 10-30. I am looking over datasheets now of all these oils and seeing how remarkable pyb 10-30 is for a conventional often exceeding the specs of the synthetics.
Originally Posted By: Lex94
In a high friction engine, pyb 10w30 formulation will give you much better fuel economy...do you even understand the concept?
They have nary a nil of a clue. you got a 94 Sc or Ls?
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Lex94
In a high friction engine, pyb 10w30 formulation will give you much better fuel economy...do you even understand the concept?
I don't think you understand what you are claiming nor the fundamentals upon which that claim would be based.
Of course I welcome to be corrected on this. Please explain, in detail:
Firstly: The engineering of a "high friction" engine and who develops/uses this in production applications.
Secondly: What component, specifically, of PYB 10w-30 deals with this high friction that other oils on the market lack.
Thirdly: Why this remarkable claim about fuel economy gains is only being made via anecdotes on the Internet by people lacking the tools to precisely measure fuel economy accurately at the levels necessary to glean the efficiency difference between oils of different grades let alone oils of the same hot viscosity. And why these claims are not being made by:
A) The manufacturer of the product themselves
B) Automotive manufacturers advocating the use of this product or products to be engineered in the same way to save billions on CAFE credits (which they would if the claim was real), since they are chasing fractions of a percentage at this point with thinner and thinner oils like 0w-16.
As an aside here:
I know I may sound like I am being rude, but incredible claims require substantial proof, which things like "try it" and "high friction engines" are not an example of, they are an attempt to shift the burden of proof from the person making the claim to those questioning them or explain them away via undefined concepts like "high friction".
So, unless everything I've pointed out can be explained away (properly) this will continue to be chalked up to junk science.
In a high friction engine, pyb 10w30 formulation will give you much better fuel economy...do you even understand the concept?
I don't think you understand what you are claiming nor the fundamentals upon which that claim would be based.
Of course I welcome to be corrected on this. Please explain, in detail:
Firstly: The engineering of a "high friction" engine and who develops/uses this in production applications.
Secondly: What component, specifically, of PYB 10w-30 deals with this high friction that other oils on the market lack.
Thirdly: Why this remarkable claim about fuel economy gains is only being made via anecdotes on the Internet by people lacking the tools to precisely measure fuel economy accurately at the levels necessary to glean the efficiency difference between oils of different grades let alone oils of the same hot viscosity. And why these claims are not being made by:
A) The manufacturer of the product themselves
B) Automotive manufacturers advocating the use of this product or products to be engineered in the same way to save billions on CAFE credits (which they would if the claim was real), since they are chasing fractions of a percentage at this point with thinner and thinner oils like 0w-16.
As an aside here:
I know I may sound like I am being rude, but incredible claims require substantial proof, which things like "try it" and "high friction engines" are not an example of, they are an attempt to shift the burden of proof from the person making the claim to those questioning them or explain them away via undefined concepts like "high friction".
So, unless everything I've pointed out can be explained away (properly) this will continue to be chalked up to junk science.
06VTECV6 I sent you a PM on this topic. Please read it in entirety.
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
Guys, I wouldn't have believed it unless I just saw it unfold and and bloom this past few weeks. I'm on (and been using 5w weight to the exclusion of 10w FOREVER) a 5w-30 fill and getting no better then about 17.xx mpg. Ever since I topped off with 10-30 PYB, that mileage has creeped up to about 19.1 mpg! This is with only using 1 quart of PYB 10-30. Original fill was 5w-30 Val full syn. I am sold on this 10-30 weight now for S to SE texas and I hope to turn the corner with my oil performance(s) knowing that 10-30 is the right VISCOSITY for S (SE) texas and not the 5w-xx [censored] the car manufacturers have been throwing at us for decade(s) now! Now granted the PB may have also had the right additive pack that this Lex/Toy responds optimally and ideally but never thought 10w wold increase my FE. I was under the impression that I had to go lower viscosity on the cold side to achieve better FE but now I realize the folly of my way was not understanding that lower cold viscosity or "thinner" oil doesn't "automatically" increase FE. This may have been self-explanatory to all but I was not aware that if you get no cold temps AT ALL, you should stay away from 5ws and 0ws completely, just was never clearly explained. Was I so clearly deluded and easily misled by the oil cap and the car's manual and not on my research here at BITOG, why yes. I should have known Rule #1 and that is climate and duty cycle dictate the oil viscosity weight and not what the manuf says as a blanket rule for ALL climates and this should be considered first in the correct logical order of choosing oil. Viscosity per your climate and the heck with what the manuf calls for whether its for CAFE or simply because most cars toil in moderate to mild temps with cold being the extreme not HEAT.
First but not least, your measurement of fuel economy have about 15% experimental error. Therefore, any increase or decrease in fuel economy that you see is not meaningful. It's impossible to do fuel-economy comparisons unless you install a precision fuel meter and do very controlled experiments in exactly the same driving conditions (speed, acceleration, grade, altitude, temperature, idle time, engine temperature, etc.). Unless someone reports experimental error in an experiment along with the mean value measured, the results don't have much meaning.
Second, if you believe that 5W-30 is too thin for your engine and causing excessive metal-to-metal contact, which is decreasing the fuel economy, why not try 10W-40, 0W-40, or 5W-40? There is little difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30. You can also run a synthetic 5W-30, which doesn't shear and will stay as thick as a conventional 10W-30, and you get better cleaning, fuel economy, longer OCI, less wear, etc. with synthetic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observational_error
Guys, I wouldn't have believed it unless I just saw it unfold and and bloom this past few weeks. I'm on (and been using 5w weight to the exclusion of 10w FOREVER) a 5w-30 fill and getting no better then about 17.xx mpg. Ever since I topped off with 10-30 PYB, that mileage has creeped up to about 19.1 mpg! This is with only using 1 quart of PYB 10-30. Original fill was 5w-30 Val full syn. I am sold on this 10-30 weight now for S to SE texas and I hope to turn the corner with my oil performance(s) knowing that 10-30 is the right VISCOSITY for S (SE) texas and not the 5w-xx [censored] the car manufacturers have been throwing at us for decade(s) now! Now granted the PB may have also had the right additive pack that this Lex/Toy responds optimally and ideally but never thought 10w wold increase my FE. I was under the impression that I had to go lower viscosity on the cold side to achieve better FE but now I realize the folly of my way was not understanding that lower cold viscosity or "thinner" oil doesn't "automatically" increase FE. This may have been self-explanatory to all but I was not aware that if you get no cold temps AT ALL, you should stay away from 5ws and 0ws completely, just was never clearly explained. Was I so clearly deluded and easily misled by the oil cap and the car's manual and not on my research here at BITOG, why yes. I should have known Rule #1 and that is climate and duty cycle dictate the oil viscosity weight and not what the manuf says as a blanket rule for ALL climates and this should be considered first in the correct logical order of choosing oil. Viscosity per your climate and the heck with what the manuf calls for whether its for CAFE or simply because most cars toil in moderate to mild temps with cold being the extreme not HEAT.
First but not least, your measurement of fuel economy have about 15% experimental error. Therefore, any increase or decrease in fuel economy that you see is not meaningful. It's impossible to do fuel-economy comparisons unless you install a precision fuel meter and do very controlled experiments in exactly the same driving conditions (speed, acceleration, grade, altitude, temperature, idle time, engine temperature, etc.). Unless someone reports experimental error in an experiment along with the mean value measured, the results don't have much meaning.
Second, if you believe that 5W-30 is too thin for your engine and causing excessive metal-to-metal contact, which is decreasing the fuel economy, why not try 10W-40, 0W-40, or 5W-40? There is little difference between 5W-30 and 10W-30. You can also run a synthetic 5W-30, which doesn't shear and will stay as thick as a conventional 10W-30, and you get better cleaning, fuel economy, longer OCI, less wear, etc. with synthetic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observational_error
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
I am fixing to do a full OCI of PYB 10-30.
You still haven't responded to my request for an error analysis of your work. Then again, you don't even have a data point, so it's kind of hard to do an error analysis. By the way, I'll give you a hint. Your error bars will not be less than 10% outside of a lab, which already puts you behind the eight ball.
I am fixing to do a full OCI of PYB 10-30.
You still haven't responded to my request for an error analysis of your work. Then again, you don't even have a data point, so it's kind of hard to do an error analysis. By the way, I'll give you a hint. Your error bars will not be less than 10% outside of a lab, which already puts you behind the eight ball.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Garak, While waiting...
Its better than holding ones breath.
Its better than holding ones breath.
Originally Posted By: Garak
You still haven't responded to my request for an error analysis of your work. Then again, you don't even have a data point, so it's kind of hard to do an error analysis. By the way, I'll give you a hint. Your error bars will not be less than 10% outside of a lab, which already puts you behind the eight ball.
You don't realize who you're dealing with in this thread. You've been had.
You still haven't responded to my request for an error analysis of your work. Then again, you don't even have a data point, so it's kind of hard to do an error analysis. By the way, I'll give you a hint. Your error bars will not be less than 10% outside of a lab, which already puts you behind the eight ball.
You don't realize who you're dealing with in this thread. You've been had.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...e_or_a_f#UNREAD
(and keep in mind I was and still am(waiting for my full tank of gas to run out so I can confirm 2nd run) claiming +2 on PYB. This gent is using the top shelf stuff and +4 MPGs)
(and keep in mind I was and still am(waiting for my full tank of gas to run out so I can confirm 2nd run) claiming +2 on PYB. This gent is using the top shelf stuff and +4 MPGs)
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...e_or_a_f#UNREAD
...and...
just wondering, if you overfill it with this magic oil, does the fuel gauge climb, and you have to drain the tank every few hundred miles to make room ?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...e_or_a_f#UNREAD
...and...
just wondering, if you overfill it with this magic oil, does the fuel gauge climb, and you have to drain the tank every few hundred miles to make room ?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...e_or_a_f#UNREAD
(and keep in mind I was and still am(waiting for my full tank of gas to run out so I can confirm 2nd run) claiming +2 on PYB. This gent is using the top shelf stuff and +4 MPGs)
Two counts of junk science doesn't magically make good science.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...e_or_a_f#UNREAD
(and keep in mind I was and still am(waiting for my full tank of gas to run out so I can confirm 2nd run) claiming +2 on PYB. This gent is using the top shelf stuff and +4 MPGs)
Two counts of junk science doesn't magically make good science.
I believe OVERKILL knows his S*** so I wouldn't second guess his experience and knowledge for a second
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...e_or_a_f#UNREAD
(and keep in mind I was and still am(waiting for my full tank of gas to run out so I can confirm 2nd run) claiming +2 on PYB. This gent is using the top shelf stuff and +4 MPGs)
Still awaiting your reply to my PM.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...e_or_a_f#UNREAD
(and keep in mind I was and still am(waiting for my full tank of gas to run out so I can confirm 2nd run) claiming +2 on PYB. This gent is using the top shelf stuff and +4 MPGs)
Still awaiting your reply to my PM.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...e_or_a_f#UNREAD
...and...
just wondering, if you overfill it with this magic oil, does the fuel gauge climb, and you have to drain the tank every few hundred miles to make room ?
Yeah, great idea.
Overfilled few magic quarts to get some gallons of gas every few dozens miles to sell on Craigslist.
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...e_or_a_f#UNREAD
...and...
just wondering, if you overfill it with this magic oil, does the fuel gauge climb, and you have to drain the tank every few hundred miles to make room ?
Yeah, great idea.
Overfilled few magic quarts to get some gallons of gas every few dozens miles to sell on Craigslist.
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