Best SAE30 weight oil?
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
I was looking at Rotella T1 30 HD which all the comments I can find (including SOPUS) is that it's extremely shear stable ...
No more Delo 30 HD available
This is the oil I was going to suggest.
Readily available and cheap.
In your climate, an HD30 would be perfectly okay.
It would be okay here as well for about half the year, although it was down to 48F overnight and there are actually frost warnings for outlying areas tonight.
This is exceptional, though. The average date of last frost in this area is 4/15 and temperatures now are 15-20F below normal for this time of the year.
I've got a case of RK HD30 that I bought to use as top-off oil and in the OPEs. The BMW will be due for an oil change around the end of June and I'm tempted.
I was looking at Rotella T1 30 HD which all the comments I can find (including SOPUS) is that it's extremely shear stable ...
No more Delo 30 HD available
This is the oil I was going to suggest.
Readily available and cheap.
In your climate, an HD30 would be perfectly okay.
It would be okay here as well for about half the year, although it was down to 48F overnight and there are actually frost warnings for outlying areas tonight.
This is exceptional, though. The average date of last frost in this area is 4/15 and temperatures now are 15-20F below normal for this time of the year.
I've got a case of RK HD30 that I bought to use as top-off oil and in the OPEs. The BMW will be due for an oil change around the end of June and I'm tempted.
Originally Posted By: CT8
Is this a trick question BrocLuno?
Not really a trick question at all. Just thinking oposite of the 0W-40 crowd and their comments that the oil will shear down a grade or two by XX miles.
I got to thinking that shear did not used to be so much of a concern. More oxidation and thickening...
The more I thought about it, the more I was/am convinced that a lot of users could get by just fine on HD 30 for spring, summer, fall... OK, winter could be an issue. But depending on how many miles you put on a year, if you are doing two changes a year, it might make sense.
I was looking at Shannow's pumpability chart in another thread and realized that there is no advantage to 5W and even 10W oils where I live - so what's the point in putting up with complex blends if they are not needed ...
Is this a trick question BrocLuno?
Not really a trick question at all. Just thinking oposite of the 0W-40 crowd and their comments that the oil will shear down a grade or two by XX miles.
I got to thinking that shear did not used to be so much of a concern. More oxidation and thickening...
The more I thought about it, the more I was/am convinced that a lot of users could get by just fine on HD 30 for spring, summer, fall... OK, winter could be an issue. But depending on how many miles you put on a year, if you are doing two changes a year, it might make sense.
I was looking at Shannow's pumpability chart in another thread and realized that there is no advantage to 5W and even 10W oils where I live - so what's the point in putting up with complex blends if they are not needed ...
Where I live, upstate New York, you could probably get away with 30 weight for maybe June, July, and August, but that's about it. I remember a few years ago it dipped below freezing in June, and one summer I was hiking in the Adirondacks on June 21 and it snowed all day! But, bottom line, unless you live someplace like Southern California where it never drops below 50 you are better off following the manufacturer's recommendation, which is probably at least a 5W-20 or 30. No proven advantages to doing otherwise.
I understand for folks who actually freeze more than one or two days a year. Makes sense for you all and that is what the engineers are thinking. There are more folks living in NYC than in some western states. So if I was engineering for "potential buyers" I'd do exactly what you say, and what they do...
But I don't live there and I'm wondering if I play off the no need of real cold flow vs shear, maybe I'm better off w/o a ton of VII's and other complexities.
My big concern is, are all the straight 30's now just hold over dino oils, or are there real improvements happening there as well? Since we can't look it up on PQIA, I don't know where to turn to reason this out except for you'all ...
The Chevron SD is interesting because it's a narrow range multi and I can see where it is replacing the HD 30's in a larger market that have some wide temp variables.
So in this thread we have covered some ground already. Just need to keep it coming as far as product and insight
But I don't live there and I'm wondering if I play off the no need of real cold flow vs shear, maybe I'm better off w/o a ton of VII's and other complexities.
My big concern is, are all the straight 30's now just hold over dino oils, or are there real improvements happening there as well? Since we can't look it up on PQIA, I don't know where to turn to reason this out except for you'all ...
The Chevron SD is interesting because it's a narrow range multi and I can see where it is replacing the HD 30's in a larger market that have some wide temp variables.
So in this thread we have covered some ground already. Just need to keep it coming as far as product and insight
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If an HD30 meets API SN, then we can safely assume that it has any improvements associated with that spec.
If a HDEO 30 meets current HDEO requirements (CJ-4+?) then we can safely assume that it has any improvements that would be required for that spec.
If a HDEO 30 meets current HDEO requirements (CJ-4+?) then we can safely assume that it has any improvements that would be required for that spec.
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My big concern is, are all the straight 30's now just hold over dino oils, or are there real improvements happening there as well?
I doubt it on any mainstream oil, but possibly with something like Amsoil or Royal Purple. Straight 30 weight just doesn't make any sense for most people so the volume and market just isn't there for most major companies to pursue it. I think I would try the Pennzoil 30 in the yellow bottle first in a car. Can probably get it at Walmart.
My big concern is, are all the straight 30's now just hold over dino oils, or are there real improvements happening there as well?
I doubt it on any mainstream oil, but possibly with something like Amsoil or Royal Purple. Straight 30 weight just doesn't make any sense for most people so the volume and market just isn't there for most major companies to pursue it. I think I would try the Pennzoil 30 in the yellow bottle first in a car. Can probably get it at Walmart.
One of the things that got me thinking about this is a 2-stroke diesel we are overhauling at the ranch. Detroit specifies oils for DDC 2-stroke engines and in their lube pub says this:
Synthetic oils should be used in Detroit Diesel engines provided they are API licensed and meet the performance and chemical requirements outlined in this publication. The oil should be a PGOS 93K214 approved product for use in EGR equipped engines. For two-stroke cycle engines, only synthetic oils which do not contain viscosity improver additives may be used. The use of synthetic oils does not necessarily assure the extension of the recommended oil drain intervals beyond the limits listed in Table 4-1
It is well known that Viscosity Improvers break down very rapidly in DDC 2-strokes and can lead to ring pack failures. So my bet is that they do the same in lesser engines too. It just happens slower and most have changed the oil before it becomes critical in that lube cycle ...
But, if you live where multi's are not required for cold start, why deal with them at all
Synthetic oils should be used in Detroit Diesel engines provided they are API licensed and meet the performance and chemical requirements outlined in this publication. The oil should be a PGOS 93K214 approved product for use in EGR equipped engines. For two-stroke cycle engines, only synthetic oils which do not contain viscosity improver additives may be used. The use of synthetic oils does not necessarily assure the extension of the recommended oil drain intervals beyond the limits listed in Table 4-1
It is well known that Viscosity Improvers break down very rapidly in DDC 2-strokes and can lead to ring pack failures. So my bet is that they do the same in lesser engines too. It just happens slower and most have changed the oil before it becomes critical in that lube cycle ...
But, if you live where multi's are not required for cold start, why deal with them at all
Have been pondering this question for ages...SAE 30 WAS the standard, until the diesel engine manufacturers finally allowed 15W40 to replace it...basically to get the cold flow (15W) they needed a "40" to get what they wanted HTHS wise with the technology back in the day.
Have posted over the years a few "why not 30" threads, and have runs a number of SAE30 runs. Pennzoil Yellow bottle HD30 in my J Car (then they pulled the brand from Oz).
The one that I enjoyed the most was running Caltex SAE30 mower oil in my E30. Many of the majors don't make a specific OPE oil, and rebottle an HDEO as OPE oil...I found (talking to them) that it was rebottled Delo Silver monograde.
It was actually their recommnedation to Rod Hadfield when he put the Merlin into a '55 Chev.
I've got way too much of this in my shed. . Coincidentally just enough to run an OCI in the Caprice.
Have posted over the years a few "why not 30" threads, and have runs a number of SAE30 runs. Pennzoil Yellow bottle HD30 in my J Car (then they pulled the brand from Oz).
The one that I enjoyed the most was running Caltex SAE30 mower oil in my E30. Many of the majors don't make a specific OPE oil, and rebottle an HDEO as OPE oil...I found (talking to them) that it was rebottled Delo Silver monograde.
It was actually their recommnedation to Rod Hadfield when he put the Merlin into a '55 Chev.
I've got way too much of this in my shed. . Coincidentally just enough to run an OCI in the Caprice.
Yeah, I know and I have the very strange feeling that the market is driven by the frozen winter of the high population density NE here in the USA...
The rest of us "can" live with what they need, so the marketeers make up all sorts of cool terms and such to tell us how good it is, when it may not be for those who don't live in an ice box 1/2 the year ...
The rest of us "can" live with what they need, so the marketeers make up all sorts of cool terms and such to tell us how good it is, when it may not be for those who don't live in an ice box 1/2 the year ...
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We get down to -7 or 8 C around here, about 20F.
Only thing I've ever tried that slowed cranking noticeably was 25W70 Shell Sport 50...and it affected milage significantly too.
Nothing 20W50, SAE30 or else has ever made me think it wasnt going to start...that oil just slowed it, never hinted at a no start.
Only thing I've ever tried that slowed cranking noticeably was 25W70 Shell Sport 50...and it affected milage significantly too.
Nothing 20W50, SAE30 or else has ever made me think it wasnt going to start...that oil just slowed it, never hinted at a no start.
If it were me and I were wishing to try a monograde 30, I'd probably be grabbing one of the major HDEOs. There are some things to watch for, which you already know about, but I'm just going to point them out to others reading the thread who might not know the difference.
Don't buy a non-detergent 30 or something you've never heard of. That's why I mentioned a major HDEO. You know it'll have a certain minimum antiwear level. Just because an ordinary SAE 30 has different limits than an ILSAC grade doesn't mean they'll necessarily load it up. And, a ND 30 is obviously problematic. I'd also advise readers to buy a dual rated HDEO monograde, as in CJ-4/SM or similar. Don't be buying a two-stroke diesel only monograde, or you may wind up regretting that choice.
I don't have much use for monogrades. But, if I were to buy one, those would be my preferred guidelines, assuming that wouldn't pigeonhole me into buying an ungodly quantity.
Don't buy a non-detergent 30 or something you've never heard of. That's why I mentioned a major HDEO. You know it'll have a certain minimum antiwear level. Just because an ordinary SAE 30 has different limits than an ILSAC grade doesn't mean they'll necessarily load it up. And, a ND 30 is obviously problematic. I'd also advise readers to buy a dual rated HDEO monograde, as in CJ-4/SM or similar. Don't be buying a two-stroke diesel only monograde, or you may wind up regretting that choice.
I don't have much use for monogrades. But, if I were to buy one, those would be my preferred guidelines, assuming that wouldn't pigeonhole me into buying an ungodly quantity.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
http://www.phillips66lubricants.com/docu...Sw%20817732.pdf
That ConocoPhillips T5X SAE 30 looks very nice.
HTHS = 3.4 cP
TBN = 10.5
Zinc = 1190 ppm
Plus it is API SL rated.
I live in a warm climate too, so I would happily use that. No VII and completely shear stable.
http://www.phillips66lubricants.com/docu...Sw%20817732.pdf
That ConocoPhillips T5X SAE 30 looks very nice.
HTHS = 3.4 cP
TBN = 10.5
Zinc = 1190 ppm
Plus it is API SL rated.
I live in a warm climate too, so I would happily use that. No VII and completely shear stable.
Here's what Pennzoil gives for the specs. on its 30 weight in the Yellow bottle. API SN:
Yup, T5X does look very nice
But, neither Amazon nor Walmart has it. No Conoco distributor near me
Sp back to Rotella T1 30 HD
But, neither Amazon nor Walmart has it. No Conoco distributor near me
Sp back to Rotella T1 30 HD
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Yeah, I know and I have the very strange feeling that the market is driven by the frozen winter of the high population density NE here in the USA...
The rest of us "can" live with what they need, so the marketeers make up all sorts of cool terms and such to tell us how good it is, when it may not be for those who don't live in an ice box 1/2 the year ...
I completely agree...who is most likely to buy? High population centers. Also, with the dumbing down of people in general, yesterday's oil vs temperature charts from owner's manuals have gone to "use xx oil only".
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And yikes, based on this chart I'd prefer a 10w30 to a straight 30 - things are still pretty thick
at 40°C in a straight 30...
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Here's what Pennzoil gives for the specs. on its 30 weight in the Yellow bottle. API SN:
Yeah, I know and I have the very strange feeling that the market is driven by the frozen winter of the high population density NE here in the USA...
The rest of us "can" live with what they need, so the marketeers make up all sorts of cool terms and such to tell us how good it is, when it may not be for those who don't live in an ice box 1/2 the year ...
I completely agree...who is most likely to buy? High population centers. Also, with the dumbing down of people in general, yesterday's oil vs temperature charts from owner's manuals have gone to "use xx oil only".
edit:
And yikes, based on this chart I'd prefer a 10w30 to a straight 30 - things are still pretty thick
at 40°C in a straight 30...
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Here's what Pennzoil gives for the specs. on its 30 weight in the Yellow bottle. API SN:
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So, I think there is a sort of a half convert... Over in the "Does anyone not believe in 0W-20" thread on page 5 we have GMFan saying (in part): "I wouldn't be surprised if at some point the passenger car market moves away from multi viscosity oils and simply specifies straight weight light oils." Which seems to indicate another person thinking along the lines I am, just with a lighter weight oil in mind ...
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