Anyone think Ford is going away?

[CanAmAndMore]

If someone looks at the parking lots in the region I live, the most popular brand is Ford. Even if looking at my own employees parking lot, F series trucks outnumber anything else, Ram pickups are the second most popular vehicle.

Ford is over 100 years old, and will be around in another 100 years.

Some auto makers probably won't exist in 100 years, but I'm certain Ford will be.

 

[fdcg27]

Every automaker has made some stinker cars and every one of them has gone through hard times, in both cases including the sainted Toyota and my own preferred brand Honda. Tesla is on a roll now but has also gone through serious difficulties.
I suspect that Ford is more likely to survive than either GM or what remains of Chrysler simply because the family still controls the company. They will do what it takes to keep their company alive and well.
Contrast that with GM and what is now called Stellantis, both companies run by second tier executives with no real attachment to the business.

 

[ford250]

GMC and Chevy are the same truck. The differences between them are the same differences you can find in (say) an F150 XL vs F150 XLT. In other words, they're different trims but the same truck.

Yes we all know that part but GM is the only manufacturer that makes two full size trucks under the same umbrella
Ford is Ford
Toyota is Toyota
Ram is Ram
So head to head one brand to another the FSeries is best selling truck
But as I said previously I really don’t think consumers nowadays really care….I don’t
I drive a Ford truck because it works very well for me. I don’t care who sells the most trucks

 

[JeffKeryk]

I want an F-150 4wd double cab PU. So they better not go away...

 

[Exhaustgases]

What would bring all auto makers back, is to offer a poor persons car and truck. No fancy gizmos in it, bring back what ever was their best engine and transmission that lasted, paint them so they won't rust with quality paint, no more overly plush interiors, hand crank windows
only simple electronic items, of course the ecm would be required for power train, but end it there. The MSRP at 15K. Yeah then the average person may be able to purchase a new vehicle then.

If they went out of business then my old 250 maybe a collectors item? I can't stand it, Found in yard dead, it can't always make it to the road. The most undependable thing ever.

 

[b_b]

What would bring all auto makers back, is to offer a poor persons car and truck. No fancy gizmos in it, bring back what ever was their best engine and transmission that lasted, paint them so they won't rust with quality paint, no more overly plush interiors, hand crank windows
only simple electronic items, of course the ecm would be required for power train, but end it there. The MSRP at 15K. Yeah then the average person may be able to purchase a new vehicle then.

If they went out of business then my old 250 maybe a collectors item? I can't stand it, Found in yard dead, it can't always make it to the road. The most undependable thing ever.

that will never happen, electronics are so cheap that its cheaper from a manufacturing standpoint to make electric windows than crank. the r&d required to pass emissions and safety standards have increased the cost of entry to the point that 15k truck will never happen. you should be thankful they offer the high end trucks, they subsidize the cost of the work truck models.

 

[hemioiler]

Yes we all know that part but GM is the only manufacturer that makes two full size trucks under the same umbrella
Ford is Ford
Toyota is Toyota
Ram is Ram
So head to head one brand to another the FSeries is best selling truck
But as I said previously I really don’t think consumers nowadays really care….I don’t
I drive a Ford truck because it works very well for me. I don’t care who sells the most trucks

Ford is both a brand (like Chevrolet) and a corporation (GM). They're just setup differently. GM as a corporation doesn't sell trucks under it's own name, Ford does.

The reason we get "stuck" on this is because Ford guys like to trot out that marketing spec (best selling) by Ford but it's not true. GM sells the most trucks these days, doesn't matter that they're under different brands. They use the same frames, same engines, same transmissions, same axles, same suspension (though GMC gets more advanced options) same electronics, same tailgates, same windshields, same rear windows, same seats etc etc. The differences are very minor.

The simple fact is, more people are attracted to GM's trucks than Ford's trucks. Do I, as a Ram owner care about this fact? Obviously not. I bought my truck under careful consideration of what matters most in a truck purchase to me, and I am not brand loyal in the slightest. But many people do care.

Ask a Ford shareholder or a GM shareholder who is building a better selling truck and who makes more money (GMC literaly prints money for them hand over fist). It matters to them.

This discussion gets interesting because many wrongfully assume "most popular = better". That is a false assumption, as there are many consumers who don't know much about anything who just naturally become attracted to a popular item whether that be cars or phones. So at a certain point, high sales numbers naturally attracts more sales just due to that little quirk of human nature.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

Just as there are more android phones out there than iphones. But for some unexplainable reason, iphone users feel the need to bash android users. I've tried both, and am an android guy.
Also having owned chevy/gmc, ford, toyota, and ram trucks, i prefer the ram brand.
We all make our own choices, they are right for us, and it doesn't really matter what other people think.

Freightliner trucks are the most popular trucks I see on the road in my area. But I don't own a single freightliner, I'm just not a fan of them, but I'll never bash them either.

 

[Fabulous50s]

Don't get me going on iPhones.... the phrase "doesn't play well with others" comes to mind.....

 

[Rmay635703]

that will never happen, electronics are so cheap that its cheaper from a manufacturing standpoint to make electric windows than crank. the r&d required to pass emissions and safety standards have increased the cost of entry to the point that 15k truck will never happen. you should be thankful they offer the high end trucks, they subsidize the cost of the work truck models.

Crank are still cheaper unless you have a very tight area to fit the mechanism

Regulatory costs are out of control and need a reset.

They only exist to isolate our market, and should be disbanded considering they keep efficient vehicles off the market.

 

[b_b]

Crank are still cheaper unless you have a very tight area to fit the mechanism

Regulatory costs are out of control and need a reset.

They only exist to isolate our market, and should be disbanded considering they keep efficient vehicles off the market.

no cranks are not cheaper, when they build a part in mass in becomes cheaper than the making a specific component for a selected few units. regulations are out of control and part of the reason vehicles have become so expensive.

 

[ford250]

Ford is both a brand (like Chevrolet) and a corporation (GM). They're just setup differently. GM as a corporation doesn't sell trucks under it's own name, Ford does.

The reason we get "stuck" on this is because Ford guys like to trot out that marketing spec (best selling) by Ford but it's not true. GM sells the most trucks these days, doesn't matter that they're under different brands. They use the same frames, same engines, same transmissions, same axles, same suspension (though GMC gets more advanced options) same electronics, same tailgates, same windshields, same rear windows, same seats etc etc. The differences are very minor.

The simple fact is, more people are attracted to GM's trucks than Ford's trucks. Do I, as a Ram owner care about this fact? Obviously not. I bought my truck under careful consideration of what matters most in a truck purchase to me, and I am not brand loyal in the slightest. But many people do care.

Ask a Ford shareholder or a GM shareholder who is building a better selling truck and who makes more money (GMC literaly prints money for them hand over fist). It matters to them.

This discussion gets interesting because many wrongfully assume "most popular = better". That is a false assumption, as there are many consumers who don't know much about anything who just naturally become attracted to a popular item whether that be cars or phones. So at a certain point, high sales numbers naturally attracts more sales just due to that little quirk of human nature.

Going back to pre-Covid truck sales 2019
Ford sold 896,526 trucks
Ram 633,694
Chevy 575,603
GMC 232,323

If math is still math Ford sold more trucks

 

[Exhaustgases]

Yeah the power windows could be cheaper than mechanical crank windows. Why?
Because the old school almost never break down mechanical crank windows of the good ole days was made almost totally from metal,
the only thing that ever caused an issue with them is when some crap plastic was used some place on them.
Now all the power window parts are almost exclusively plastic crap, so yeah much cheaper to make them.
Quality is more expensive to make, funny thing is only the manufacture see's the savings in cost of cutting corners using junk plastic in vehicles, not the end user. The only time they don't save the $ is when the said junk part causes a recall.

 

[hemioiler]

Going back to pre-Covid truck sales 2019
Ford sold 896,526 trucks
Ram 633,694
Chevy 575,603
GMC 232,323

If math is still math Ford sold more trucks

Since 2020, up to and including this quarters sales (so the last 4 years in a row), GM has outsold Ford. That includes covid supply chain issues which affect every manufacturer, and also includes those 2 years where GM had a drab plastic interior which couldn't hold a candle to Ram and even Fords was somewhat better.

This isn't a covid thing, this is a truck thing. I don't necessarily think that GM is the best truck just because it sells the most, but Ford guys should stop making that claim that they're best selling because thats a twisting of the statistics.

One of the last videos from TFL truck pits the GM duramax vs the Ford powerstroke HO. Despite being down 200+ lb/ft of torque, the GM accelerated quicker to 30 (forget the exact speed they were using, but they hit first in the duramax) and was only like 12 seconds behind the Ford in a 10 minute run going up the IKE with a massive trailer behind them. It also squatted less and was quieter.

Ford likes to play the numbers and stats games heavily, buyers should be aware of that. All these trucks (including ram and toyota) are extremely competitive as a whole, but have individual strengths and weaknesses.

The YTD numbers for you if you want to check them:

Sales Comparison: Silverado vs Sierra vs F-Series vs Ram

See a comparison of American pickup truck sales numbers - Chevrolet Silverado sales vs. GMC Sierra sales vs Ford F-Series sales vs. Ram pickup sales.

motrolix.com

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[nomas]

I haven't owned a Ford since the early 80's . They'll be around for a while though .

 

[ford250]

Since 2020, up to and including this quarters sales (so the last 4 years in a row), GM has outsold Ford. That includes covid supply chain issues which affect every manufacturer, and also includes those 2 years where GM had a drab plastic interior which couldn't hold a candle to Ram and even Fords was somewhat better.

This isn't a covid thing, this is a truck thing. I don't necessarily think that GM is the best truck just because it sells the most, but Ford guys should stop making that claim that they're best selling because thats a twisting of the statistics.

One of the last videos from TFL truck pits the GM duramax vs the Ford powerstroke HO. Despite being down 200+ lb/ft of torque, the GM accelerated quicker to 30 (forget the exact speed they were using, but they hit first in the duramax) and was only like 12 seconds behind the Ford in a 10 minute run going up the IKE with a massive trailer behind them. It also squatted less and was quieter.

Ford likes to play the numbers and stats games heavily, buyers should be aware of that. All these trucks (including ram and toyota) are extremely competitive as a whole, but have individual strengths and weaknesses.

The YTD numbers for you if you want to check them:

Sales Comparison: Silverado vs Sierra vs F-Series vs Ram

See a comparison of American pickup truck sales numbers - Chevrolet Silverado sales vs. GMC Sierra sales vs Ford F-Series sales vs. Ram pickup sales.

motrolix.com

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So Covid supply issues had nothing to do with sales numbers ???? Is that what your saying ??

 

[Torrid]

I'll never buy another Ford, but they'll do just fine without me.

 

[Number_35]

But who would have thought Sears of all companies would have bit the dust.

I don't know if this is true, but one theory about Sears is that most of the stores were built postwar in the new inner suburbs.

Fast-forward 60 or 70 years, and those large plots of land are almost priceless - no amount of retail sales could generate the revenue to match the profits from closing the stores and selling off the land.

Alternative theory: Sears, with its catalogue business already well-established, could have been Amazon. Management didn't see e-tail coming, and dropped the ball.

 

[hemioiler]

So Covid supply issues had nothing to do with sales numbers ???? Is that what your saying ??

That's dangerously close to a strawman fallacy, you know I didn't say that.

Ford guys are using covid as an excuse for drooping sales in the F series. I'm saying you can't use that excuse as covid has affected every manufacturer equally, including GM who has had parking lots full of trucks they couldn't sell quickly due to supply chain issues.

It's also something that has happened consistently over 4 years now. This isn't a covid trend, it's a simple fact that GM is selling more product.

 

[ESP9935]

Ford guys are using covid as an excuse for drooping sales in the F series. I'm saying you can't use that excuse as covid has affected every manufacturer equally, including GM who has had parking lots full of trucks they couldn't sell quickly due to supply chain issues.

One look at my local dealerships during the height of the supply chain shortages indicates they didn't effect every manufacturer equally.