Another "Help Me Choose Between These" Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
So are you trying to tell me that through this Socratic method of learning, in my dialogue with the respected council of elders, I've come to the conclusion that the ideal oil (performance, cost, availability) is the oil I currently have in my basement, which I've been using for my truck?

Yes. Now we're getting somewhere.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
So are you trying to tell me that through this Socratic method of learning, in my dialogue with the respected council of elders, I've come to the conclusion that the ideal oil (performance, cost, availability) is the oil I currently have in my basement, which I've been using for my truck?


For an engine that specs a 0W-20 (with a 40 degree cSt viscosity in the ~45 range), I would probably go with the 0W-30 (40 degree cSt viscosity of 72) instead of stepping up to a 0W-40 (40 degree cSt viscosity of 79). Even that is a sizable jump.
 
Now I'm imagining what I could've done with the 30 or 40 hours I just wasted -- although communicating with you pains in the arse isn't a waste of time.
The two jugs of the Castrol I have are relatively old. I bought them from Walmart about a year ago. Who knows how long they were on the shelf before that. I may use them for the truck.
I'll toss a coin as between PP Euro 5W-40 and Castrol 0W-40.

You guys are the best. Each and every one of you -- even the ones I aggravated. Thank you.
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
So are you trying to tell me that through this Socratic method of learning, in my dialogue with the respected council of elders, I've come to the conclusion that the ideal oil (performance, cost, availability) is the oil I currently have in my basement, which I've been using for my truck?


For an engine that specs a 0W-20 (with a 40 degree cSt viscosity in the ~45 range), I would probably go with the 0W-30 (40 degree cSt viscosity of 72) instead of stepping up to a 0W-40 (40 degree cSt viscosity of 79). Even that is a sizable jump.

That engine is cross-specd with LL-01.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
That engine is cross-specd with LL-01.


True, I presume as a fall-back since LL-14 FE+ (and LL-01 FE for that matter) is impossible to find in the U.S. I would rather have a slightly thinner oil than 0W-40 living in Minnesota. Even Castrol's 0W-30 is thick compared to most 5W-30s. For example, Liqui-Moly's 5W-30 LL-01 oil is 64 cSt at 40 degrees... Although it has a higher pour-point (by a wide margin) since it is GIII based with no PAO.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
That engine is cross-specd with LL-01.


True, I presume as a fall-back since LL-14 FE+ (and LL-01 FE for that matter) is impossible to find in the U.S. I would rather have a slightly thinner oil than 0W-40 living in Minnesota. Even Castrol's 0W-30 is thick compared to most 5W-30s. For example, Liqui-Moly's 5W-30 LL-01 oil is 64 cSt at 40 degrees...

In any continental state in the U.S. you can run 5W30 easily, not to mention 0W30.
All Euro W30 oils are on a thick side. Some are slightly thicker some are slightly thinner, but they are all thick.
As for LM, I stop using that [censored] oil 15 years ago, regardless how big Made in Germany letters are on bottle.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
You guys are the best. Each and every one of you -- even the ones I aggravated. Thank you.

Go and sin no more.
lol.gif


cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
You guys are the best. Each and every one of you -- even the ones I aggravated. Thank you.

Go and sin no more.
lol.gif


cheers3.gif


lol.gif
lol.gif
lol.gif
lol.gif
lol.gif
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
All Euro W30 oils are on a thick side. Some are slightly thicker some are slightly thinner, but they are all thick.
As for LM, I stop using that [censored] oil 15 years ago, regardless how big Made in Germany letters are on bottle.


Agreed. All I am saying is that the engine was designed around a 0W-20 oil, with LL-01 as a fallback for availability reasons. I would rather use something on the thinner side within the LL-01 specification, if possible.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
In the spirit of BITOG, I'll be argumentative, priggish, and hypertechnical, and say that "suitable," an adjective meaning "right or appropriate for a particular person, purpose, or situation," does in fact mean it is "approved."

It's not the same thing at all. Reputable oil companies, Red Line included, make that distinction. Approved means the tests have been conducted by whomever wrote the spec designates as appropriate, that the results have been presented to required parties, that licensing fees, if any, have been paid, and so forth.

In other words, to be approved, you follow the requirements of the specification to the letter, including the administrative side. Suitable for is not the same thing, and is often very useful, particularly when speaking of expired or obsolete specifications, or, indeed, simply meeting a spec without paying fees or undergoing all the testing.

And, there is nothing wrong with Red Line. The lubes just aren't approved. They claim they're suitable. You trust them or you do not. I have a fair bit of trust in Red Line. Mobil claims that Mobil Delvac Elite 222 0w-30 is suitable for CJ-4, but has no certifications. I'd tend to believe them. Now, if it's something I bought off a pier in an unlabeled pail, or from City Star, that's another matter.

That's the reason formal approvals exist, so you don't have to pick and choose who to trust all the time.
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
All Euro W30 oils are on a thick side. Some are slightly thicker some are slightly thinner, but they are all thick.
As for LM, I stop using that [censored] oil 15 years ago, regardless how big Made in Germany letters are on bottle.


Agreed. All I am saying is that the engine was designed around a 0W-20 oil, with LL-01 as a fallback for availability reasons. I would rather use something on the thinner side within the LL-01 specification, if possible.

Designed around LL14FE? First time hear that. I would say it is designed around LL-01, with LL-14FE in mind.
 
It appears BMW Oil's website now indicates that BMW oil is "synthetic based." Apparently I've been running a semi-synthetic in a $55,000 car since March of last year.

Mystery as to why BMW doesn't publish a data sheet: solved.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
It appears BMW Oil's website now indicates that BMW oil is "synthetic based." Apparently I've been running a semi-synthetic in a $55,000 car since March of last year.

Mystery as to why BMW doesn't publish a data sheet: solved.

No you were not running semi-synthetic. All BMW oils are now GTL based.
And all oils that carry any BMW approval are synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
It appears BMW Oil's website now indicates that BMW oil is "synthetic based." Apparently I've been running a semi-synthetic in a $55,000 car since March of last year.

Mystery as to why BMW doesn't publish a data sheet: solved.


You are running an oil that carries the specification that it states. It is irrelevant what the composition is and where it came from, because it passes performance specifications that also happen to be some of the most stringent in existence for a PCMO.

I really don't know why you are so fascinated with base stocks, since by the rest of your posts it's clear you don't understand even the basic points of what it means to carry a specification as opposed to "meets or exceeds". You're able to elucidate the fine points of an oil's composition?

And as far as a data sheet goes, BMW is under no obligation to do so. They are selling an oil, carrying their brand that is suitable for use in those vehicles that require the specifications listed on the container. That's all you need to know. I realize that sounds harsh but it's the truth. BMW isn't in the oil business. They sell an oil to their customers that is appropriate for their automobiles. End of story.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Designed around LL14FE? First time hear that. I would say it is designed around LL-01, with LL-14FE in mind.


You don't think BMW designed the B series engine to suit its factory fill? HTHS of 2.6 and 3.5 are pretty far apart.
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Designed around LL14FE? First time hear that. I would say it is designed around LL-01, with LL-14FE in mind.


You don't think BMW designed the B series engine to suit its factory fill? HTHS of 2.6 and 3.5 are pretty far apart.

Factory fill for? How you know LL-14FE is factory fill? In EU it is still LL-01 that is dominant and recommended.
BMW engineers were talking before that they are trying to address different driving patterns (mostly grocery getting) of the U.S> BMW owners compare to EU. I see why they moved to 0W20 in the U.S. where most BMW's see city driving, numerous cold starts etc. especially in light of coming 530e and existing 40e.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Designed around LL14FE? First time hear that. I would say it is designed around LL-01, with LL-14FE in mind.


You don't think BMW designed the B series engine to suit its factory fill? HTHS of 2.6 and 3.5 are pretty far apart.

Factory fill for? How you know LL-14FE is factory fill? In EU it is still LL-01 that is dominant and recommended.
BMW engineers were talking before that they are trying to address different driving patterns (mostly grocery getting) of the U.S> BMW owners compare to EU. I see why they moved to 0W20 in the U.S. where most BMW's see city driving, numerous cold starts etc. especially in light of coming 530e and existing 40e.


Interesting. I didn't know LL-01 was still FF in Europe for the new B engine.
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Designed around LL14FE? First time hear that. I would say it is designed around LL-01, with LL-14FE in mind.


You don't think BMW designed the B series engine to suit its factory fill? HTHS of 2.6 and 3.5 are pretty far apart.

Factory fill for? How you know LL-14FE is factory fill? In EU it is still LL-01 that is dominant and recommended.
BMW engineers were talking before that they are trying to address different driving patterns (mostly grocery getting) of the U.S> BMW owners compare to EU. I see why they moved to 0W20 in the U.S. where most BMW's see city driving, numerous cold starts etc. especially in light of coming 530e and existing 40e.


Interesting. I didn't know LL-01 was still FF in Europe for the new B engine.

LL14FE is present, but LL-01 is dominant considering driving patterns.
Until 10 years ago 5W30 was a controversial weight in Europe.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
It appears BMW Oil's website now indicates that BMW oil is "synthetic based." Apparently I've been running a semi-synthetic in a $55,000 car since March of last year.

Mystery as to why BMW doesn't publish a data sheet: solved.


You are running an oil that carries the specification that it states. It is irrelevant what the composition is and where it came from, because it passes performance specifications that also happen to be some of the most stringent in existence for a PCMO.

I really don't know why you are so fascinated with base stocks, since by the rest of your posts it's clear you don't understand even the basic points of what it means to carry a specification as opposed to "meets or exceeds". You're able to elucidate the fine points of an oil's composition?

And as far as a data sheet goes, BMW is under no obligation to do so. They are selling an oil, carrying their brand that is suitable for use in those vehicles that require the specifications listed on the container. That's all you need to know. I realize that sounds harsh but it's the truth. BMW isn't in the oil business. They sell an oil to their customers that is appropriate for their automobiles. End of story.


Honestly I think behind your arrogance sits naïveté in assuming that corporate decisions as to branded after-market oil are made exclusively by the company's chemical engineers and chemists, and that marketing and accountants are out of the loop. The truth is, such decisions aren't based on the long term best interests of the vehicle. The decisions are based on cost-benefit analyses -- their bottom line. They and any other corporation -- especially publicly-traded ones -- will use the least costly materials that are at least good enough to not wreck the product within the warranty period or ruining their reputation. In fact, they have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to use the just good enough least costly material. So yes, I do have a right to care about whether BMW oil is semi synthetic or synthetic because these things matter to me. I swear to God, this site is a constant pis$ing contest among priggishly arrogant [censored], many of whom satisfy diagnostic criteria for adult Asperger's. It's amazing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top