Another "Help Me Choose Between These" Thread

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MateoTorgy

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Jan 15, 2017
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Minneapolis
I need help picking a new oil -- LL-01 ACEA A3/B4 for my 2016 BMW 340i XDrive.

Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40
Liqui Moly Special Tec LL 5W-30
Motul 8100 X-Cess 5W-40
Red Line 5W-30

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts/opinions.

Thank you!
 
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 gets my vote. Very accessible, and often discounted at end of year sales for $2/qt. Pennzoil currently offers a $2/qt rebate through 2017. So no matter where you buy it, you won't end up paying more than $3/qt for it. Good oil too. I have 7 quarts of it for a future oil change.
 
Which ones are more accessible to you? Also, any reason why you're not considering M1 0w-40 or Castrol Syntec 0w-40? Both are good oils that are readily available across the US.
 
Originally Posted By: sicko
Which ones are more accessible to you? Also, any reason why you're not considering M1 0w-40 or Castrol Syntec 0w-40? Both are good oils that are readily available across the US.

M1 0w40 no longer carries the LL-01 approval. (6 months ago it disappeared.)
But yes he already uses Castrol 0w-40 and its easy to get, cheap, good stuff, it gets my vote (a write-in candidate).
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: sicko
Which ones are more accessible to you? Also, any reason why you're not considering M1 0w-40 or Castrol Syntec 0w-40? Both are good oils that are readily available across the US.

M1 0w40 no longer carries the LL-01 approval. (6 months ago it disappeared.)
But yes he already uses Castrol 0w-40 and its easy to get, cheap, good stuff, it gets my vote (a write-in candidate).
smile.gif



I bought the Castrol Edge 0W-40 as a Minnesota winter oil for my Tacoma, which can face cold starts in -20 temps when I ice fish up north between Bemidji and Walker.

I was hoping to get a group 4 or 5 for the car. I included PP in the mix because the nat gas intrigues me, and I didn't want to offend the BITOG council elders by omitting it from the list. (That's a joke... Hello? Is this thing on?)

I really do appreciate this advice. Please keep it coming.
 
Any properly rated oil will do . Does Red Line have the proper ratings? How does the 0w-40 Castrol start in the -20 weather?
 
Liqui-Moly is just group 3. I didn't like it in my N62 X5. Castrol EDGE 0W-40 or 0W-30 would get my vote. Motul is good too, but harder to come by and more expensive. If you go Motul, you should get 8100 X-max 0W-40 instead of X-cess. It will be better for your climate. Redline isn't worth the price and carries zero builder approvals, just baseless claims.

Btw, nice car. I had a 2016 3-series loaner car the other day. I was impressed.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Liqui-Moly is just group 3. I didn't like it in my N62 X5. Castrol EDGE 0W-40 or 0W-30 would get my vote. Motul is good too, but harder to come by and more expensive. If you go Motul, you should get 8100 X-max 0W-40 instead of X-cess. It will be better for your climate. Redline isn't worth the price and carries zero builder approvals, just baseless claims.

Btw, nice car. I had a 2016 3-series loaner car the other day. I was impressed.


Thanks but, honestly, it's my wife's car. The kid has the Honda Fit. I have the Taco and the bikes. But the wife lets me drive it if I do all the maintenance lol. It does better on the ice and in the snow than my 4x4.

I like to think they're all mine.

So you guys don't think I'd be well served with an ester blend in the 8100 (be it the 0w or 5w), and I'd be just as good with Castrol 0W-30? That stuff is on sale locally for $5/qt. At Advance Auto Parts.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Thanks but, honestly, it's my wife's car. The kid has the Honda Fit. I have the Taco and the bikes. But the wife lets me drive it if I do all the maintenance lol. It does better on the ice and in the snow than my 4x4.

I like to think they're all mine.

So you guys don't think I'd be well served with an ester blend in the 8100 (be it the 0w or 5w), and I'd be just as good with Castrol 0W-30? That stuff is on sale locally for $5/qt. At Advance Auto Parts.


Honestly it's hard to really say what oils contain esters anyways, since it's not considered hazardous and therefor not on a MSDS. They are also extremely expensive to produce and so I wouldn't expect to see them in many passenger car oils due to that and the advancements in Griup III (expensive race oils are a different story). EDGE is a proven oil with a PAO basestock, so it will have excellent cold flow properties. Just make sure you get 0W-30 A3/B4.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: sicko
Which ones are more accessible to you? Also, any reason why you're not considering M1 0w-40 or Castrol Syntec 0w-40? Both are good oils that are readily available across the US.

M1 0w40 no longer carries the LL-01 approval. (6 months ago it disappeared.)
But yes he already uses Castrol 0w-40 and its easy to get, cheap, good stuff, it gets my vote (a write-in candidate).
smile.gif



I bought the Castrol Edge 0W-40 as a Minnesota winter oil for my Tacoma, which can face cold starts in -20 temps when I ice fish up north between Bemidji and Walker.

I was hoping to get a group 4 or 5 for the car. I included PP in the mix because the nat gas intrigues me, and I didn't want to offend the BITOG council elders by omitting it from the list. (That's a joke... Hello? Is this thing on?)

I really do appreciate this advice. Please keep it coming.

Both Castrol 0W30 and 0W40 are PAO (GrIV) based oils.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: sicko
Which ones are more accessible to you? Also, any reason why you're not considering M1 0w-40 or Castrol Syntec 0w-40? Both are good oils that are readily available across the US.

M1 0w40 no longer carries the LL-01 approval. (6 months ago it disappeared.)
But yes he already uses Castrol 0w-40 and its easy to get, cheap, good stuff, it gets my vote (a write-in candidate).
smile.gif



I bought the Castrol Edge 0W-40 as a Minnesota winter oil for my Tacoma, which can face cold starts in -20 temps when I ice fish up north between Bemidji and Walker.

Curious how the 40w is doing in an engine that's spec'd for 20w correct?
I was hoping to get a group 4 or 5 for the car. I included PP in the mix because the nat gas intrigues me, and I didn't want to offend the BITOG council elders by omitting it from the list. (That's a joke... Hello? Is this thing on?)

I really do appreciate this advice. Please keep it coming.
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: sicko
Which ones are more accessible to you? Also, any reason why you're not considering M1 0w-40 or Castrol Syntec 0w-40? Both are good oils that are readily available across the US.

M1 0w40 no longer carries the LL-01 approval. (6 months ago it disappeared.)
But yes he already uses Castrol 0w-40 and its easy to get, cheap, good stuff, it gets my vote (a write-in candidate).
smile.gif



I bought the Castrol Edge 0W-40 as a Minnesota winter oil for my Tacoma, which can face cold starts in -20 temps when I ice fish up north between Bemidji and Walker.

I was hoping to get a group 4 or 5 for the car. I included PP in the mix because the nat gas intrigues me, and I didn't want to offend the BITOG council elders by omitting it from the list. (That's a joke... Hello? Is this thing on?)

I really do appreciate this advice. Please keep it coming.
 
Well I'm starting to lean toward Castrol OW-30 ACEA A3/B4 and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40. I'm still a little confused as to the "base" used for the PP. Does natural gas fall strictly into the group 3 category?

After the Pennzoil rebate, the price/quart bottle will be about the same. Currently the Castrol is on sale at a local parts store for $5.50, and I can order the PP Euro from Walmart for just under $7 and then use the $2/quart rebate.

I'd greatly appreciate it if someone talked me off the ledge as to either or both -- if you think I am on a ledge....

Thanks again.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
I'm still a little confused as to the "base" used for the PP. Does natural gas fall strictly into the group 3 category?

Yes. Why does it matter though?

Quote:

I'd greatly appreciate it if someone talked me off the ledge as to either or both -- if you think I am on a ledge....

Analysis paralysis. That is what BITOG does to people.

Toss a coin. Your engine won't be able to tell the difference.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
I'm still a little confused as to the "base" used for the PP. Does natural gas fall strictly into the group 3 category?

Yes. Why does it matter though?

Quote:

I'd greatly appreciate it if someone talked me off the ledge as to either or both -- if you think I am on a ledge....

Analysis paralysis. That is what BITOG does to people.

Toss a coin. Your engine won't be able to tell the difference.



I guess you could respond that way to every post on this site.
 
I seriously do not understand your emphasis on GrIV or V. Final product is what matters.
Redline claims hat it is 100% Ester based, but they are not approved oil, and getting approval is cheap.
It is the final product that matters. M1 5W30 ESP that I use in BMW is VISOM based (GrIII) but has lower NOACK then Redline, has HTHS almost on par with Motul X-Clean 5W40, has ridiculously high flash point, low pour point.
By the way, Castrol 0W30 and 0W40 are made from same base, except 0W40 is $25 in Wal Mart for 5qt.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I seriously do not understand your emphasis on GrIV or V. Final product is what matters.
Redline claims hat it is 100% Ester based, but they are not approved oil, and getting approval is cheap.
It is the final product that matters. M1 5W30 ESP that I use in BMW is VISOM based (GrIII) but has lower NOACK then Redline, has HTHS almost on par with Motul X-Clean 5W40, has ridiculously high flash point, low pour point.
By the way, Castrol 0W30 and 0W40 are made from same base, except 0W40 is $25 in Wal Mart for 5qt.


I have some M1 5W30 ESP sitting in the garage waiting for my next oil change, but it is important to note that it has a somewhat low starting TBN (6.5 according to the Russian Oil Club) and may not be well suited to long oil change intervals. It has a dose of calcium-based detergents that is comparable to that in standard M1 5W30, but very little of the magnesium-based variety that is used to boost the TBN of the latter product.

Other than the TBN, the ESP seems like a "super-oil"...
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I seriously do not understand your emphasis on GrIV or V. Final product is what matters.
Redline claims hat it is 100% Ester based, but they are not approved oil, and getting approval is cheap.
It is the final product that matters. M1 5W30 ESP that I use in BMW is VISOM based (GrIII) but has lower NOACK then Redline, has HTHS almost on par with Motul X-Clean 5W40, has ridiculously high flash point, low pour point.
By the way, Castrol 0W30 and 0W40 are made from same base, except 0W40 is $25 in Wal Mart for 5qt.


I'll try to address each of your points.

I'm hoping to get a group 4 or, preferably, 5 based on the literature I've read thus far, primarily from when I was studying motorcycle oils and deciding on a particular brand and formula. Based on what I've read from seemingly reputable and reliable sources, esters are polar and cling to metals thereby providing better protection on metal-to-metal surfaces when compared to group 3 or 4 oils. Therefore, if I can get a group 5 oil, whether its base or fortified 4, for the same price as a group 3 or 4, or blended 3/4 oil, then why not? I understand your point about the significance of additive or anti-wear packages. But yet again, if the same or similar additives are used for all "synthetic" oils (groups 3, 4, and 5), then the difference maker would in fact be the base.

That's just to address your point about why I would prefer a group 5. You may have noticed that in a recent post, I announced my decision to narrow my choices down to either the Pennzoil 5W40 Platinum Euro or the Castrol 5W30. I was talked out of Red Line 5W30 early on in the thread. However, you claim that your Mobil 1 has a better NOACK than Red Line. Are you saying your Mobil 1 has a NOACK below 6? If that's the case, then hats off to M1. Still, new BMW cars can't use M1. Well, I guess they can, but our dealer at time of sale and the owner's manual advises against using any non LL-01 certified oil, and M1 lost that certification several years ago. And contrary to your statement, Red Line 5W30 is indeed an approved oil -- ACEA A3/B4 LL-01.

Finally, Castrol's 0W30 and 0W40 may be made using the same base, BMW recommends use of 0W30, while allowing 0W40. So, if I can get either for the same price -- and I can due to a local sale on OW30, I'll let that be the tie breaker. I realize that I'm still considering PP 5W40 Euro, but it's the only readily available PP that is certified for A3/B4 and LL-01.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I seriously do not understand your emphasis on GrIV or V. Final product is what matters.
Redline claims hat it is 100% Ester based, but they are not approved oil, and getting approval is cheap.
It is the final product that matters. M1 5W30 ESP that I use in BMW is VISOM based (GrIII) but has lower NOACK then Redline, has HTHS almost on par with Motul X-Clean 5W40, has ridiculously high flash point, low pour point.
By the way, Castrol 0W30 and 0W40 are made from same base, except 0W40 is $25 in Wal Mart for 5qt.


Well said. When I first joined BITOG I was overly concerned about basestock. While I still think it is important, it's not as black and white as I originally thought.
 
Originally Posted By: MateoTorgy
Are you saying your Mobil 1 has a NOACK below 6?

5.6%.

Quote:
And contrary to your statement, Red Line 5W30 is indeed an approved oil -- ACEA A3/B4 LL-01.

It is "suitable for." That is not the same as approved.
 
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