it probably has something to do with the "tachiness" of the resulting blend.
About Mobil1's Noise.
- Thread starter leshan
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No, I actually never said it "wasn't grp III". When there's a mix of Grp III and Grp IV/V - I don't call that oil Grp III - that would be an incorrect definition of the motor oil. But in the final analysis - when you say I have no conclusive evidence, you are spot on. I don't know if it's 100% grp III (I've been led to believe otherwise on BITOG - but I can't remember conclusive evidence there either).
So let me restate my ill-thought post -
I'm pretty sure that Valv. SynPower is not a 100% grp III synthetic. Pretty sure. Proceed at your own risk.
How's that?
So let me restate my ill-thought post -
I'm pretty sure that Valv. SynPower is not a 100% grp III synthetic. Pretty sure. Proceed at your own risk.
How's that?
And my apologies for the mis-info!
have you every tried royal purple? I have a 02 tundra and it stays in the garage most of the time. I start it up every 2 weeks. I tried M1 once just for Sh*ts and giggles and the engine had a slight tap in it after it sat for 2 weeks. I drained the m1 out and put the RP back in it (fresh 5w-30) and let it sit for 3 weeks (went on vacation) and it did not tap at all. I think if u tried the RP u will be pleased.
(But my confidence is (now) partly based on Valv.s integrity - for a company to bring the coveted grp IV/Vs into the discussion - when they have zero IV/V is a bit dishonest in my opinion).
I seem to be a magnet for the "M1 causes noise" posts! Can't get away from it. Perhaps I'll put something besides M1 in my Sienna and find that the sound of my engine running has disappeared.
To throw more inconclusive "info" into the mix - I just tried looking back at some SynPower post (I now give up on that endeavor) - but I found one that claimed all SynPower lines were Grp III except for 20w50 which they stated as "PAO" (with no evidence). Since this could all be more mis-info, I only bring it up to pt out - discussing oil constituents can't be blanketed across a company product line - but each wgt product has to be looked at separately.
Valv. states the use of "combinations" of proprietary oils in the context of a PAO/Ester question - they may not be using these grp IV/V at all or they may only be using them in one wgt product.
Valv. states the use of "combinations" of proprietary oils in the context of a PAO/Ester question - they may not be using these grp IV/V at all or they may only be using them in one wgt product.
The current price of 2.50 a quart (9.95/gal) for Valvoline Synpower 5w30 and 10W30 is enough for me to add some to my stash and try it out sometime. This was at AAP today. Some type of clearance deal and no rebate to fool with!
Exactly, each viscosity grade must be considered separately.
Last time I checked the MSDSs of the Synpower lineup, they listed the 5W-20 as having both Group 3 and PAO. When looking at MSDSs, remember that they are not all inclusive lists of base oils used so what's not listed may still be used, like Group 5 base oils.
not to be silly, but this issue can be settled rather conclusively. Purchase or borrow a Radio Shack digital sound pressure level meter. Establish a standard place to measure engine noise, like the middle of a driveway, street or field where other buildings/structures cannot reflect the sound.
Come up with a way to hang/hold the SPL meter at a measureable distance in front and above the engine, when the hood is open.
Make an A-weighted and C-weighted noise measurement and record it.
Make warm engine measurements with the engine at full operating temperature. Turn off AC/radios ... etc, and be sure the cooling fan isn't running.
Do the same but under cold start conditions.
This could be done with old oil, new oil, and different types of oils.
If you can hear differences, then the meter will detect them.
Or, forget the science and lets argue about this ad infinitum.
Come up with a way to hang/hold the SPL meter at a measureable distance in front and above the engine, when the hood is open.
Make an A-weighted and C-weighted noise measurement and record it.
Make warm engine measurements with the engine at full operating temperature. Turn off AC/radios ... etc, and be sure the cooling fan isn't running.
Do the same but under cold start conditions.
This could be done with old oil, new oil, and different types of oils.
If you can hear differences, then the meter will detect them.
Or, forget the science and lets argue about this ad infinitum.
While I have no measurements or recordings, M1 was much noisier in my 1998 BMW than anything else I've put in it (Pennzoil 5W50 years ago, Esso XD3, GC). It's a lower pitched, grumbling noise that drones on getting louder, but not higher pitched, with rpm. It was the difference between pulling into my garage and hearing all this top end stuff, and after switching only hearing only my alternator and power steering. The difference between a hard to hear lifter tick for all the other noise and the same tick standing out clear as day.
I was a long time M1 user and heard the same kind of sound from my 1990 Integra (M1 5W30 supersyn and trisyn) and 1992 Porsche 968 (M1 15W50 supersyn and trisyn, M1 0W40) despite vastly different engine designs - although all are DOHC. I don't think the older formulations did this, I noticed my Integra getting noisier in this regard in later years (an M1 reformulation?) but thought it was age. Go figure.
Back in the day I just thought M1 was the best, and I needed "SH or better" and never really looked for reformulations. I noticed but didn't pay much attention to SS vs. TS, SJ vs. SL vs. SM etc... No way to go back and experiment now.
If I can't get GC some day, I'll give M1 0W40 another hard look - it got a good UOA other than shearing. At this time, with other great oils to choose from, I'm avoiding M1 in my current vehicle for this reason. I'd probably go with Esso XD3 or Amsoil before M1 as long as a UOA gives it the thumbs up.
If/when I ever get something calling for a 20 weight, I'd have to start looking all over again because I've been focused on heavier oils. I've heard good buzz about Amsoil 0W20.
Craig.
I was a long time M1 user and heard the same kind of sound from my 1990 Integra (M1 5W30 supersyn and trisyn) and 1992 Porsche 968 (M1 15W50 supersyn and trisyn, M1 0W40) despite vastly different engine designs - although all are DOHC. I don't think the older formulations did this, I noticed my Integra getting noisier in this regard in later years (an M1 reformulation?) but thought it was age. Go figure.
Back in the day I just thought M1 was the best, and I needed "SH or better" and never really looked for reformulations. I noticed but didn't pay much attention to SS vs. TS, SJ vs. SL vs. SM etc... No way to go back and experiment now.
If I can't get GC some day, I'll give M1 0W40 another hard look - it got a good UOA other than shearing. At this time, with other great oils to choose from, I'm avoiding M1 in my current vehicle for this reason. I'd probably go with Esso XD3 or Amsoil before M1 as long as a UOA gives it the thumbs up.
If/when I ever get something calling for a 20 weight, I'd have to start looking all over again because I've been focused on heavier oils. I've heard good buzz about Amsoil 0W20.
Craig.
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Different v-p coefficients sould give different noise spectral power distributions. ie. PAO should have a sharper more metallic sound when oily surfaces impact, vs group I.
Oilyriser - very interesting. Do you have a link that explains any of this?
I reiterate my original request - someone give me an example of "noisy" M1 compared to another Grp IV/V oil with similar visc. GC doesn't count since it is rather thick comapared to the M1 30 wgts.
I reiterate my original request - someone give me an example of "noisy" M1 compared to another Grp IV/V oil with similar visc. GC doesn't count since it is rather thick comapared to the M1 30 wgts.
I'm still holding out hope for Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30 and 10W-40. I'm hoping no one has a noise complaint about them because I was planning on trying it someday.
SFCP - The reason why you don't like hearing negative comments about Mobil 1 is because it's ALREADY in your engine as we speak, causing horrific damage.
SFCP - The reason why you don't like hearing negative comments about Mobil 1 is because it's ALREADY in your engine as we speak, causing horrific damage.
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Oh, and by the way, I think all of the oils I mentioned in my post are group IV - current whining about the latest M1 being G3 notwithstanding. The differences I notice are all within the same base stock classification.
To others: I never claimed M1 sucks, or didn't do the job. I don't know how many times I need to praise it's UOA performance (posted in the UOA forum) to deflect this argument against my observations. Based on the noise issue alone, which I've observed in my current engine beyond a shadow of a doubt with a dramatic and immediate decrease in noise (which I wasn't looking for) when switching from M1, I am choosing to stick with other brands. Add in my (and others) great satisfaction with GC in my engine model and I'm not even shopping around...
I will not be putting M1 back into my engine for >6months to take some sound meter readings just to qualify for participation in an Internet debate. Sorry.
To others: I never claimed M1 sucks, or didn't do the job. I don't know how many times I need to praise it's UOA performance (posted in the UOA forum) to deflect this argument against my observations. Based on the noise issue alone, which I've observed in my current engine beyond a shadow of a doubt with a dramatic and immediate decrease in noise (which I wasn't looking for) when switching from M1, I am choosing to stick with other brands. Add in my (and others) great satisfaction with GC in my engine model and I'm not even shopping around...
I will not be putting M1 back into my engine for >6months to take some sound meter readings just to qualify for participation in an Internet debate. Sorry.
Nope, is my own idea, that needs to be tested. I'm suggesting the low traction oil allows the parts to come closer together before the oil starts to thicken from pressure, and forms that EHD film. The higher pressures needed to create enough viscosity to stop the impact creates a higher local acceleration, and higher harmonics in the noise.
A math model should be possible, too.
Can you please show me some evidence that synthetics allow your engines to last longer?? There are many UOA's that have better wear numbers with conventional oils than synthetics. If you change your oil like clockwork, I am willing to bet there would be no difference in longevity between the two!! Now for extended intervals thats a whole different story, but this whole arguement is for a different thread.
Maybe the M1 noise and the higher iron numbers in a UOA are somehow related????
I suspect that there is yes.
better wear numbers with conventional oils than synthetics?
Really? So, Why do we use synthetics? How can they sell synthetics? I believe most of ours OCI is 5k-7.5k. Most new vehicles have 5k or more OCI requirment by factory.
Really? So, Why do we use synthetics? How can they sell synthetics? I believe most of ours OCI is 5k-7.5k. Most new vehicles have 5k or more OCI requirment by factory.
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Can you please show me some evidence that synthetics allow your engines to last longer?? There are many UOA's that have better wear numbers with conventional oils than synthetics. If you change your oil like clockwork, I am willing to bet there would be no difference in longevity between the two!! Now for extended intervals thats a whole different story, but this whole arguement is for a different thread.
Maybe the M1 noise and the higher iron numbers in a UOA are somehow related????
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