9MM Suggestions

[jmb3675]

I agree you should try to shoot all of the guns you are considering before making a choice. It is amazing how different they can feel to shoot. Of the choices listed, I prefer the SR-9 because it fits my hand better and I prefer a manual safety.
If you do not care about a manual safety I would seriously consider a Springfield XD or XDM. I love mine and it has been truly reliable for over 40k rounds. Their customer service is the best in the industry also.
I carry an SR9C now. I prefer having the safety for in the waistband carry, and the safety works the same way as my Bodyguard 380, which makes me feel better and makes practice for both guns pretty much the same.

 

[bubbatime]

For strictly home defense, you want a full size, service handgun. None of this compact handgun monkey business.

The glock and Smith and Wesson are top tier handguns. The ruger is a second tier handgun. There are very few police departments still issuing ruger handguns, and that is what we call a clue. The XD and XDs from springfield are nice guns too, but I would also consider them 2nd tier guns. They have a really high bore axis. They also are issued by very few police departments.

Hard to go wrong with Glock, Smith, Walther, Sig, or HK.

Dont forget that the long gun IS the primary home defense weapon, so go get a used Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 from your local pawn shop for $200. Or a semi automatic carbine would be even better if you have the funds.

 

[Robenstein]

There were several PD's that issued S&W Sigma guns over the years, so going by what police agencies issue is not always a reliable metric since the Sigma was pretty much a lemon. Now if a gun enters service or passes tests as a military side arm then I am usually convinced it is reliable and durable.

Ruger can make a good gun, and indeed Ruger has seen service in the US Army tank corps with the P95 and the earlier P85 did pass all the tests the US Army threw at it that only the Beretta 92 and the Sig 226 passed. Submissions from H&K, Colt, and S&W did not.

Not sure of the new SR9 though...have only shot a very early one and was not all too impressed in the feel and the trigger.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein


Ruger can make a good gun, and indeed Ruger has seen service in the US Army tank corps with the P95 and the earlier P85 did pass all the tests the US Army threw at it that only the Beretta 92 and the Sig 226 passed.


The US army test were 30 years ago.

Also, any published reports referencing US Army Tank Corp is not weapons used by Americans. During the buildup of Iraq's security forces, the US needed to supply handguns/weapons NOW. They bought Sig Pros, Rugers, Glocks, and many more. ALL of those guns were just given to the Iraqi's. There wasnt one single manufacturer that was able to provide the weapons right away, so they procured weapons from many manufacturers to get the weapons as soon as possible.

 

[Robenstein]

http://www.ruger.com/news/2004-12-23.html

They issued 5k of the P95 to the U.S. Army Tank-automotive and Armaments Command, not to Iraqi Security forces.

Yes that was 30 years ago but it is evidence that Ruger is not a "Second tier" manufacturer when it is capable of producing guns that can pass tests "First tier" makers could not.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
They issued 5k of the P95 to the U.S. Army Tank-automotive and Armaments Command, not to Iraqi Security forces.


I know for CERTAIN that no Ruger pistols were issued to US Military personnel. LIKE I SAID, these pistols were bought on contract and given to Iraqi Security Forces, PERIOD.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Yes that was 30 years ago but it is evidence that Ruger is not a "Second tier" manufacturer when it is capable of producing guns that can pass tests "First tier" makers could not.


The ONLY pistols that passed the pistol trials that you are talking about are the Sig P226 and the Beretta 92F. They bought the Beretta because it was $1 per pistol cheaper.

 

[Robenstein]

The p85 was tested in 1988 (xm10 tests) and passed, but was not competitive in price. I have published books on my shelf that state so. This was after the Beretta had won the previous trials(xm9 in 1983), and they won based not on the cost per gun, but on being cheaper for parts and magazines than Sig Sauer.

And did you read the statement issued by Ruger? They were ordered for the US Army. Maybe they ended up in Iraqi hands down the road, but they were ordered for the intent of issuing them to U.S. Troops.

But its okay to be wrong.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
And did you read the statement issued by Ruger? They were ordered for the US Army. Maybe they ended up in Iraqi hands down the road, but they were ordered for the intent of issuing them to U.S. Troops.

But its okay to be wrong.



THIS contract was for 10,000 pistols. 5000 were ordered from Ruger and 5000 were ordered from Sig Sauer. The pistols were to be delivered as soon as possible to Baghdad International Airport, where they were picked up by the US military and distributed to Iraqi Security Forces within weeks. They were never "intended to be issued to US troops" as you say. If they were intended for US troops, they would have ordered an already approved handgun, such as a 1911, Beretta 92, Sig P226 or Sig P228. They Ruger and Sig Pro handguns ordered are not US military approved sidearms, and thus, were never intended for issue to US troops. I'm not sure what is so hard to grasp about this concept.

But like you said, it's OK to be wrong sometimes.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
THIS contract was for 10,000 pistols. 5000 were ordered from Ruger and 5000 were ordered from Sig Sauer.


I believe this link confirms this, "Iraqi Security Forces: Weapons Provided by the U.S. Department of Defense Using the Iraq Relief and Reconstruction Fund":

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a460516.pdf

If one looks up the two 5,000 qty contracts, W52HO9-05-C-0058 and W52HO9-05-C-0059, one will find that they belong to Ruger and Sig, respectively. The DoD paid about $254 each for the 5,000 Rugers and about $351 each for the 5,000 Sigs. The unit prices may vary some, as I don't know the delivery specifications of the contracts, whether they were delivered to TACOM or to Baghdad directly (the original RFP asked for pricing options for both).

Originally Posted By: From the original TACOM RFP

This announcement constitutes the only solicitation and a further written solicitation will not be issued. The solicitation number is W52H09-05-R-0067 and is issued as a Request for Proposal (RFP).

Description of Requirement: 10,000 each 9 mm Pistols with 2 each High Capacity Military/Law Enforcement (LE) Magazines per Weapon for Standard NATO 9 mm (9 X 19 mm) Caliber.

All proposed pistols must contain the following salient features:

9 X 19 mm (NATO) Caliber
2 ea. 15 round Military/Law Enforcement (LE) High Capacity Magazines per Pistol
Length: 7" - 8"
Weight: 28 - 35 oz
Single/Double Action
Finish: Gray/Black/Blue Flat Non-Reflective
Manual Decock/Safety Capable.

ISO9001-2000 is a requirement for all offerors. Offerors must submit with its proposal a statement certifying that any and all proffered guns were manufactured or will be manufactured in a facility with an ISO9001-2000 quality system.

Offerors may propose on all or part of this total requirement; however offerors proposing less than the total requirement of 10,000 each 9 mm Pistols must propose quantity ranges in increments of 100 each with a price corresponding to each range. NOTE: The minimum quantity an offeror may propose for delivery is 100 each.

One or multiple awards may result from this solicitation.

Requirements call for a Certificate of Conformance (COC), Acceptance at Origin and F.O.B. Destination. Concerning transportation, offerors should include in their proposal a price for shipment to two possible destinations. The first price would be for the contractor's pistols to be shipped F.O.B. Destination to:

XR WOL7 Anniston Munitions Center
Trans Officer
7 Frankford Ave., BLDG 380
Anniston, AL 36201-4199.

The second price would be for the contractor's pistols to be shipped directly to Baghdad International Airport, Baghdad, Iraq.

 

[hatt]

You can argue for a 1000 years about the best gun. The fact is any reliable, sufficiently powerful, somewhat user fried gun can be used. But when you're just starting out, why? Jump on the bandwagon. You can easily get anything imaginable for a Glock; to a lessor extent the M&P. Probably at your local gun store. Mag/parts/armorers/aftermarket/holsters everywhere. What's one person's favorite means nothing to someone else. Buy it, use it. If, after you gain experience you want to move in a another direction, selling it will be easy as well.

 

[donnyj08]

Im going to stick to my recommendation for a shotgun. also i have a sweet Hi-Point 9mm carbine with a red-dot sight that works beautiful for home defense. i have a flash light mounted on the rails and its great for a night time home defense gun. I probably would still prefer my shotgun, but the carbine is semi-auto and has light recoil. you can pick one up for $299 350-400 with a decent watch battery powered red-dot optic.

 

[Win]

Doesn't sound like Uncle Sam got much of a deal on the Sigs.

I paid $399 retail for my SP2022 with night sights and two mags, if that's the same gun.

 

[Astro14]

The USN did buy Sigs under contract. The M11 service pistol. Issued to aviation units. Got pretty familiar with it.

Nice gun, not cheap, but would be a good choice for the OP. It's a full size 9mm.

Retail version: http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/m11-a1.aspx

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Win
Doesn't sound like Uncle Sam got much of a deal on the Sigs.

I paid $399 retail for my SP2022 with night sights and two mags, if that's the same gun.


They got a great deal on Sigs, depending on model...consider that the price includes extra mags and spare parts...retail on the M11 is a grand...

 

[zerosoma]

For home defense a beretta 92fs or a px4 storm are good choices. 92fs has combat accuracy and is easy to manipulate with the slide and other ergonomics. It's a beautiful pistol to boot. The px4 is a more modern polymer style beretta with a narrower grip profile and more precise accuracy (IMO). Not as sleek as a 92 though.

But if you want a gun you will never ever sell get a sig. 226 or 229. You will be sold for life.

All of these guns have manual safeties and decockers so they are safer to use if you are unfamiliar with semi automatic pistols. For instance, you cock the hammer back and you're not ready to fire and someone or something jumps in front of your target. Decocker, saves you the sweat of having to "let it down easy". Striker fired pistols have their place but I always think its a good idea to learn on a SA/DA pistol first. You can't disengage a striker nearly as safely unless the chamber is unloaded.

 

[Win]

The Walther P99AS is striker fired, DA/SA, and has a decocker.

It's a terrific handgun for anyone wanting a striker fired polymer gun.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Win
The Walther P99AS is striker fired, DA/SA, and has a decocker. It's a terrific handgun for anyone wanting a striker fired polymer gun.

+1 - I have a Sig P226 and P229 and two Walther P99AS pistols. I like all of them, but the Walthers are really nice and the decocker makes it easy to "disarm".

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: Win
The Walther P99AS is striker fired, DA/SA, and has a decocker.

It's a terrific handgun for anyone wanting a striker fired polymer gun.


How can it be both striker fired ...AND DA/SA? Something new here I've never heard of?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: Win
The Walther P99AS is striker fired, DA/SA, and has a decocker.

It's a terrific handgun for anyone wanting a striker fired polymer gun.


How can it be both striker fired ...AND DA/SA? Something new here I've never heard of?

Check the link on the page to the owner's manual; it describes the whole functionality... Walther P99 AS