9MM Suggestions

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Originally Posted By: hatt
This is the one I'm thinking of.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/woman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder/nTm7s/


Very emotional story.

Apparently she was on the phone with her husband as it happened too, protecting her kids.

In the end, I doubt more bullets would have made any difference as it is no substitute for marksmanship.

Glad it was not my family.

She hit him 5 out of 6 shots in the face and neck?

 

[123Saab]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Originally Posted By: hatt
This is the one I'm thinking of.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/woman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder/nTm7s/


Very emotional story.

Apparently she was on the phone with her husband as it happened too, protecting her kids.

In the end, I doubt more bullets would have made any difference as it is no substitute for marksmanship.

Glad it was not my family.

She hit him 5 out of 6 shots in the face and neck?


Oh cmon man you know those were grazing shots at best.

A .38 smack in the middle of your face is game over.

Almost any caliber is.

 

[Whitewolf]

Walther PPQ is worth looking at.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: 123Saab


Oh cmon man you know those were grazing shots at best.

A .38 smack in the middle of your face is game over.

Almost any caliber is.

I don't know anything about those shots. Perhaps you can find the report. I do know for 100% certainty that there's been 9mm shot out of an MP5 bounce off a guys forehead. And .38s travel all the way around the skull under the skin. This story is not surprising in the least. People give up most of time after being shot with a handgun. Perfect heartshot with a .357 mag and there's no physical reason the guy can't continue to try and kill you for at least 10 seconds+. If they don't give up on their own you'll need more shots.

 

[whip]

If there's a home invasion, I'm using my Glock 19 with the 33 round mag. At home, protecting my family, there's no such thing as enough ammo.
If I'm carrying in public, I'm comfortable with 5 rounds from a 442 for most sitiuations. Retreat is my first option. An option I don't have at home.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I agree. For home defense use, I don't believe there's such a thing as too much firepower. You aren't concealing the gun, so magazine size doesn't much matter. You aren't carrying it, so weight doesn't much matter. Additional ammunition doesn't hurt here, so why not take advantage of it if you can? Our nightstand gun is a CZ P-09 with 19+1. I probably wouldn't want to carry that gun, but it works great for home defense because of the firepower in the grip.

I'd much rather have rounds left in the magazine that I felt I didn't need than have an empty magazine (or cylinder, on a wheel gun) and wish I had more.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Originally Posted By: hatt
This is the one I'm thinking of.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/woman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder/nTm7s/


Very emotional story.

Apparently she was on the phone with her husband as it happened too, protecting her kids.

In the end, I doubt more bullets would have made any difference as it is no substitute for marksmanship.

Glad it was not my family.

She hit him 5 out of 6 shots in the face and neck?


what the [censored] was this guy? half yeti?

 

[Robenstein]

There are many instances where perps take multiple rounds before going down, especially when drugs are involved.

During the Philippine Insurrection the drugged up locals were taking a full cylinder of 38 Long Colt without going down. In the famous 1986 FBI shootout the perp took something like 16 rounds of 9mm before he stopped fighting.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
There are many instances where perps take multiple rounds before going down, especially when drugs are involved.

During the Philippine Insurrection the drugged up locals were taking a full cylinder of 38 Long Colt without going down. In the famous 1986 FBI shootout the perp took something like 16 rounds of 9mm before he stopped fighting.

+1 - a medium sized deer can run for how far with its heart blown completely out by a rifle cartridge carrying more than double the energy? Why is so hard to rationalize that an amped up human could not do something similar?

 

[tdpark]

Sig Pro 2022- great value gun

 

[123Saab]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
There are many instances where perps take multiple rounds before going down, especially when drugs are involved.

During the Philippine Insurrection the drugged up locals were taking a full cylinder of 38 Long Colt without going down. In the famous 1986 FBI shootout the perp took something like 16 rounds of 9mm before he stopped fighting.


Seriously you compare a black powder 38 cal with anything modern?

It was anemic to begin with.

"Philippine Insurrection"

That is some current data for sure......

 

[123Saab]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
There are many instances where perps take multiple rounds before going down, especially when drugs are involved.

During the Philippine Insurrection the drugged up locals were taking a full cylinder of 38 Long Colt without going down. In the famous 1986 FBI shootout the perp took something like 16 rounds of 9mm before he stopped fighting.


Really?

Platt attempted to start the [censored]/Dove car. Mireles drew his .357 Magnum revolver, moved parallel to the street and then directly toward Platt and Matix. Mireles fired six rounds at the suspects. The first round missed, hitting the back of the front seat. The second hit the driver's side window post and fragmented, with one small piece hitting Platt in the scalp. The third hit Matix in the face, and fragmented in two, with neither piece causing a serious wound. The fourth hit Matix in the face next to his right eye socket, travelled downward through the facial bones, into the neck, where it entered the spinal column and severed the spinal cord. The fifth hit Matix in the face, penetrated the jaw bone and neck and came to rest by the spinal column.[23] Mireles reached the driver's side door, extended his revolver through the window, and fired his sixth shot at Platt. The bullet penetrated Platt's chest and bruised the spinal cord, ending the gunfight.

 

[Astro14]

Yes. Really

Suspects
William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge shotgun, one round #6 shot fired. Killed after being shot six times.

Michael Platt: Ruger Mini-14 .223 Remington with folding stock, at least 42 rounds fired, S&W M586 .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired, Dan Wesson .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired. Killed after being shot 12 times.

So, it took 18 rounds on target to bring down these two. They were drug-free, determined bad guys. FBI agents fired nearly 70 rounds of .38spl and 9mm as well as 5 shotgun rounds. FBI agents outnumbered bad guys 4:1.

So, if a trained agent gets 1/4 of rounds on target, and a determined bad guy can take up to 12 hits and stay in the fight, I vote for a high capacity pistol for self defense.

 

[123Saab]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Yes. Really

Suspects
William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge shotgun, one round #6 shot fired. Killed after being shot six times.

Michael Platt: Ruger Mini-14 .223 Remington with folding stock, at least 42 rounds fired, S&W M586 .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired, Dan Wesson .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired. Killed after being shot 12 times.

So, it took 18 rounds on target to bring down these two. They were drug-free, determined bad guys. FBI agents fired nearly 70 rounds of .38spl and 9mm as well as 5 shotgun rounds. FBI agents outnumbered bad guys 4:1.

So, if a trained agent gets 1/4 of rounds on target, and a determined bad guy can take up to 12 hits and stay in the fight, I vote for a high capacity pistol for self defense.


Equally, I can vote for better marksmanship.

And Mireles used a .357 Mag.

 

[Astro14]

Before you pass judgement on others' marksmanship, answer this question:

How many gunfights have you been in?

Not punching holes in paper...that's easy. Real fights, where a determined adversary wants to kill you...

 

[123Saab]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Before you pass judgement on others' marksmanship, answer this question:

How many gunfights have you been in?

Not punching holes in paper...that's easy. Real fights, where a determined adversary wants to kill you...


What is wrong with you?

I have absolutely no obligation to prove anything to you.

But I have an opinion, Just like you do.

Leave the personal stuff out of this please.

 

[Robenstein]

Read Dave Grossman's work...you will see why in a real life gun fight marksmanship takes a dive. Your psychology and physiology works against you more often than not. You will also learn why in combat sometimes people don't go down very easily when drugs are not even involved.

I will also say that that just because some accounts are not current does not mean they do not prove a point.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Before you pass judgement on others' marksmanship, answer this question:

How many gunfights have you been in?

Not punching holes in paper...that's easy. Real fights, where a determined adversary wants to kill you...


What is wrong with you?

I have absolutely no obligation to prove anything to you.

But I have an opinion, Just like you do.

Leave the personal stuff out of this please.


You made this personal when judging the marksmanship of those agents. You judged them. That's personal.

Recall your post a few pages back, in which you said, "how do you know?" Also personal. No different, really, than my question. You can't make this personal and then take umbrage at a personal question.

The physiology of a gunfight, or combat in general, is absolutely germane to the discussion.

An opinion formed without understanding of those factors doesn't really carry weight with me. And it shouldn't carry much weight in the selection of a self defense weapon.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: 123Saab
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Before you pass judgement on others' marksmanship, answer this question:

How many gunfights have you been in?

Not punching holes in paper...that's easy. Real fights, where a determined adversary wants to kill you...


What is wrong with you?

I have absolutely no obligation to prove anything to you.

But I have an opinion, Just like you do.

Leave the personal stuff out of this please.
What exactly is your opinion? In one sentence.

 

[donnyj08]

i would go with a Ruger SR9C. you can pick them up for $400 all day. very durable and well built. also if your state allows it it comes with a 17 round exstention which essentially makes it have the capacity of the SR9. As far as accuracy i have shot plenty of rounds out of both and they are a draw. The SR9C is just as accurate as the full size SR9 in my experience.

In reality, however if your looking for a home defense gun your best bet is a good old shotgun. A 12 or 20 Gauge pump is an invaders biggest fear. Sure the 9mm will more than do the job, but if your wanting a 1 shot stop a big bore shotgun is what you want. I have an SR9C in my night stand. Its purpose is to make sure i get to my 20gauge pump if i need to defend my home.

Go pick you up a mossberg 500 for a couple hundred bucks and use that as home defense. Then Go buy and SR9C or S&W SD9VE which is almost exactly like a Glock and you could have both for the price of 1 Glock 19. Im not anti-Glock they are top notch, however Handguns in general are underpowered. there is no reason to buy something like a browning hi-power or other expensive handgun if your simply looking to get into something to defend your home. Save several hundred and get a good pump shotgun.