5w30 didn’t save me from the lifter tick

[KrisZ]

There is a mechanic on Chrysler minivan forums that works on these quite a lot and he said that the 2018+ models got the latest revision of the rocker arms (AH) and so far he hasn't seen any in his garage.
Who knows if it means anything, maybe 2018 are not hitting the magic 100k mile mark en mass yet. But that's the revision of the rockers I got.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

The bearing in the roller packs it in, resulting in the roller dropping down:

IME the bearing needles themselves are fine. The center pin that they ride on however, grinds down, which reduces the clearance between the rocker and cam. It is definitely possible to hear the ticking before taking out a cam, most people just don't pay enough attention.

From my wife's Wrangler:

I did one per side because the parts were on backorder at the time, and we traded it in soon after.

 

[thunderous1335]

I am not aware of any widespread issues with the 2AR - do you have a source? Besides, this is way off-topic.

Sure, an actual Toyota tech over someone like you who's playing deaf:

 

[OVERKILL]

IME the bearing needles themselves are fine. The center pin that they ride on however, grinds down, which reduces the clearance between the rocker and cam. It is definitely possible to hear the ticking before taking out a cam, most people just don't pay enough attention.

From my wife's Wrangler:

View attachment 180489

I did one per side because the parts were on backorder at the time, and we traded it in soon after.

Very similar to the HEMI issue, where the needles themselves are fine, but either the pin or roller (or both) are improperly heat treated and eventually start to wear like depicted, but, since they are much smaller, the needles eventually pile-up and it stops rolling, taking the lobe out.

 

[OVERKILL]

The failures usually revolve around the rollers failing and allowing the camshaft to contact the rocker. They usually occur outside of warranty so 60k+ miles. So on the percentage of rollers that do fail, if someone could come up with a method/lubricant to keep the wear down at the roller support, we have a winner. Snake oil? Viscosity, Base oil types? I know that engines that have high spring tension on the valve train use higher viscosities in racing to combat some of the same type of wear patterns. Some very smart people on this board. Even with parts that are substandard from manufacture, they are usually living long enough to get the dealer off. the hook warranty wise. There should be a method out there to allow these substandard parts to have a longer life than is usual with manufacturer spec oil don't you think. Arco graphite? LOL. I know these VVT engines need to shift oil fairly rapidly for the valve timing so there are limits to weight/viscosity. Any real tribologist's have an opinion?

There's no additive or oil that's going to mitigate improper heat treating. Same issue with the HEMI lifters and the pushrod lifters Ford and GM are using. Offshoring can yield unpredictable results and this appears to be one of them. We never had this problem in the 80's and 90's.

 

[KrisZ]

There's no additive or oil that's going to mitigate improper heat treating. Same issue with the HEMI lifters and the pushrod lifters Ford and GM are using. Offshoring can yield unpredictable results and this appears to be one of them. We never had this problem in the 80's and 90's.

Yes, it does seem like poor quality control of the heat treatment.
You don’t see many of them fail on one engine, it’s usually one or two and that’s about it.

 

[TiGeo]

Cue the “CeraTec quiets noisy lifters!!!” group in 3… 2… 1….

 

[TiGeo]

So, when a frame breaks on a Tundra or Tacoma we say "can't un-Toyota a Toyota", same when the 2AZ-FE starts drinking oil? or is the mud-slinging selective where we only crap on certain brands?

I have 4 VWs...I get it ahahahha

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

View attachment 180564

I hope LM sends you a royalty check, free products, or at least some swag

 

[TiGeo]

I hope LM sends you a royalty check, free products, or at least some swag

I get nothing but the satisfaction from the tears of LM haters on BITOG.

 

[kschachn]

View attachment 180564

So will Cera Tec help prevent the type of failure shown in this thread?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I get nothing but the satisfaction from the tears of LM haters on BITOG.

I wasn’t hating… was giving props for your brand ambassadorship

 

[TiGeo]

So will Cera Tec help prevent the type of failure shown in this thread?

No...I don't think so....but it probably will damper the noise a bit

 

[TiGeo]

I wasn’t hating… was giving props for your brand ambassadorship

It's the same brand ambassadorship you and many others give other products....which I also do as well when it makes sense.

 

[knightjp]

If using 5w30 oil didn't solve the lifter tick, then you could ago thicker. IMO the sure way to solve a lifter tick is replace the lifters.
I can't say for the 3.6, but as someone who has faced the dreaded lifter tick 3 times on 2 different Ram trucks with the 5.7 V8 engine, I learned a good strategy the hard way.
1. Don't follow the manual, when it comes to thin oils as it seems to me the thinner oils are only for better EPA ratings, not longevity. Use a good known brand 5w30 / 0w40 oil.
2. Make the oil change intervals short - 3000 - 4000 miles.
3. Don't use 5w20 oil if you live in a hot climate like I do here in Dubai.

Those who have done this from the very beginning of the life of their engines have actually never faced a tick the whole time. I got this advice from some old guys who practically never read the manual and treat their engines the same way they used to back in the day - Good oil and short change intervals. It is now that we have the thinner oils and longer change intervals.
If your engine already has a tick, and you're not going to replace the lifters, the best oil to use is Redline 5w30 or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 with Lubegard Biotech. I would say that you're stuck with using this combo till you have your lifters replaced or we figure out another combo that works. It doesn't cure the tick, but it quietens it to a level and you don't hear it unless you're actually looking for it.
If your engine still has a tick after using Redline, then sorry.. you have no choice but to do a rebuild.

One person said he uses Liquimoly 5w30 Molygen and Liquimoly hydraulic lifter additive and his Hemi engine is really quiet. I'm thinking of trying that combo. Currently have Mobil1 FS 0w40 on my engine.

 

[KrisZ]

I already found the two bad rockers, they were on the front bank, exhaust side closest to the timing chain. The rollers had lots of play, but were still turning, so the cams were not damaged. The saga still continues though, hopefully will come to a positive conclusion this weekend.

As you can see, maintenance and OCIs were not an issue. These engines experience this failure regardless of maintenance it seems.

 

[sloinker]

I already found the two bad rockers, they were on the front bank, exhaust side closest to the timing chain. The rollers had lots of play, but were still turning, so the cams were not damaged. The saga still continues though, hopefully will come to a positive conclusion this weekend.

As you can see, maintenance and OCIs were not an issue. These engines experience this failure regardless of maintenance it seems.

View attachment 181569

At least they are right up front and fairly easy to change.