-54C Pour Point and high PAO content

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: buster
According to the current MSDS for M1 5w30, pour point is now only -33F.

However, PAO is supposedly still in very short supply. Many suppliers are reformulating on the fly, partially substituting Grp III and then boosting the AO to offset. Not sure if things are back to normal now. I would assume they are. I have heard though that now is an bad time to make a long-term opinion of an oil's quality based on what's currently out there.

Grp III could also be part of future M1 oils. Who knows...

Companies like Amsoil/Redline don't sell enough oil to really be impacted by the supply shortage. They don't move anywhere near the volume XOM does.



Most of their MSDS' say that. I think we need to wait for the PDS before drawing too many conclusions...

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: buster
According to the current MSDS for M1 5w30, pour point is now only -33F.



I believe there is now more alcohol in non-alcoholic beer, than there is PAO in Mobil 1 5W-30.

 

[buster]

$$$$

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: buster
According to the current MSDS for M1 5w30, pour point is now only -33F.


According to this PDS it's -48C

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.asp

Tom NJ

 

[ARCOgraphite]

From current date of post EoM M1 FAQ, I guess the "Lynch Mob" may be responsible for a little "reconsideration" and resultant lowered PP.

Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?

Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
From current date of post EoM M1 FAQ, I guess the "Lynch Mob" may be responsible for a little "reconsideration" and resultant lowered PP.

Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?

Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.



It surely must be a unique combination of synthetic fluids if the pour point is higher than their 1996 15W-50.

I think XOM should have offered the BITOG community a Crack Pipe rebate instead of the $10 general public incentive. This way we could all believe it to be primarily a PAO based product.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I like the "... our customers expectations part". Maybe the tech line was tired of having the phone ring every 30-seconds

 

[tig1]

If anyone here thinks you can determine any oil companys formulation by a saftey sheet then maybe the $10 crack pipe is all ready in use.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: tig1
If anyone here thinks you can determine any oil companys formulation by a saftey sheet then maybe the $10 crack pipe is all ready in use.



Who said they could determine an oil formulation?
Determining the formulation and suggesting the PAO content has dropped are two completely different things. Don't you think?

Do you believe current Mobil 1 5W-30 has as much PAO content as the '96 15W-50? How do you explain the rise in pour point?

 

[tig1]

Everone here believes M1 5-30 and most of the M1 oils are a blend of different oil groups. Some M1 oils have more of one group than others. I'm only saying safty sheets will never give any real solid info on on base oil content. That's why the difference between MSDS and the PDS. It makes for good discussion, but not much else. Mobil keeps that info close to the vest and I doubt if they would reveal that stuff by accident.

 

[buster]

There PDS's and MSDS's don't match. The MSDS list revisions so maybe the PDS is old or not updated.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ

According to this PDS it's -48C

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5W-30.asp

Tom NJ


Is there any chance that a high content PAO(Group IV) oil cannot meet ILSAC GF-4 for instance. With GC 0W-30 and Mobil 1 0W-40 being GF-3 rated I am just wondering? Perhaps to give balance to the whole perspective, Mobil 1 was forced to lower PAO content, to meet modern American/Japanese specs?

 

[buster]

Some have made that claim, and never explained why. Doesn't make any sense to me. I think all boils down to cost & hurricane Ike. IMO.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay

Is there any chance that a high content PAO(Group IV) oil cannot meet ILSAC GF-4 for instance.

Such oils cuurently exist. Mobil 1 0W-20, for example. Refer to the Japanese MSDS where mineral oil content (Group I, II, and III fall under that category per their definition) is listed as 5-10% which is from additive carrier oil. http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/AlternateFormat.aspx?DocumentID=635544&DocumentFormat=RTF

Contrast that with M1 10W-30 MSDS which lists 40-50% mineral oil: http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/AlternateFormat.aspx?DocumentID=645063&DocumentFormat=RTF

So what's not listed are Groups IV and V fluids.

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
With GC 0W-30 and Mobil 1 0W-40 being GF-3 rated I am just wondering? Perhaps to give balance to the whole perspective, Mobil 1 was forced to lower PAO content, to meet modern American/Japanese specs?

Viscosities are too high IMO to meet fuel economy requirement of GF-4 which are more strict than they were in GF-3. Friction modifiers can only help so much. Viscosity is dominating factor.

 

[Nederlander75]

So you are saying that M1 0w20 is predominantly PAO?

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Is there any chance that a high content PAO(Group IV) oil cannot meet ILSAC GF-4 for instance.


There would be no problem meeting GF-4 with a high Grp IV/V oil, but why when Grp III is half the price.

Tom NJ

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: JAG
Mobil 1 0W-20, for example. Refer to the Japanese MSDS where mineral oil content (Group I, II, and III fall under that category per their definition) is listed as 5-10% which is from additive carrier oil.
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/AlternateFormat.aspx?DocumentID=635544&DocumentFormat=RTF

Contrast that with M1 10W-30 MSDS which lists 40-50% mineral oil:
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/AlternateFormat.aspx?DocumentID=645063&DocumentFormat=RTF

So what's not listed are Groups IV and V fluids.



So at least 90% of 0W-20 is Group IV and V.

Wow.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
So you are saying that M1 0w20 is predominantly PAO?

I think so. Almost without exception, when a major motor oil company chooses a blend of base stocks from Group IV and V, they choose PAO as the majority fluid because it provides the best overall performance to cost ratio. Various Group V fluids, if used, are used in minority amounts to improve some of the weaknesses of PAO. It doesn't take much Group V to make a significant difference in those regards.

The typical esters and alkylated napthalene (AN) that may be used cost than PAO. The high cost and the fact that it doesn't take much to have a significant effect are what keeps the companies from using more of these fluids in oils than PAO. There are other Group V fluids that have been used and some that still are used like PAG and vegetable oils but that is much less common than esters and AN.

 

[bruce381]

be advised you cannot really guestmate base stocks in ANY formulation from data sheet alone as they say there are is more than one way to skin a cat. Unless a MSDS is really honest and accurate that may not help either sionce a MSDS sheet is for saftey and handling it is NOT a formulation.

that does not take into account any formulation/supply/whatever changes the Mfg does NOT have to tell anyone about.
bruce

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: bruce381
be advised you cannot really guestmate base stocks in ANY formulation from data sheet alone as they say there are is more than one way to skin a cat. Unless a MSDS is really honest and accurate that may not help either sionce a MSDS sheet is for saftey and handling it is NOT a formulation.

that does not take into account any formulation/supply/whatever changes the Mfg does NOT have to tell anyone about.
bruce


What can the 90% remaining oil be if it is not Group IV and V?