AI, like chatGTP or Google's Bard. Laymen's oil questions and response

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May 5, 2012
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Arizona
Having some fun with AI.

I posted oil questions to chatGTP and Google Bard.
Here is the Q&A with Bard.

What is the HTHS of Pennzoil euro L motor oil

The HTHS of Pennzoil Euro L motor oil is 3.5. HTHS stands for High Temperature High Shear, and it is a measure of the oil's viscosity at high temperatures and under high shear stress. A higher HTHS rating indicates that the oil will be more resistant to shearing and will therefore provide better protection for the engine under extreme conditions.
The HTHS rating of Pennzoil Euro L is comparable to other high-quality synthetic motor oils, and it is sufficient for most modern engines. However, if you are driving in extreme conditions or if your engine is particularly high-performance, you may want to choose an oil with a higher HTHS rating.
Here is a table of the HTHS ratings of some popular motor oils:
OilHTHS Rating
Pennzoil Euro L3.5
Castrol Edge3.7
Mobil 13.5
Shell Helix Ultra3.8
Motul 8100 X-cess4.1

As you can see, the HTHS ratings of these oils vary, but they are all within a reasonable range. The best oil for you will depend on your specific needs and driving conditions.



What HTHS should I use in Toyota's 2GRFE​

The Toyota 2GR-FE engine requires a motor oil with an HTHS rating of at least 3.5. This is the minimum viscosity required to maintain adequate oil film strength at high temperatures and under high shear stress.
If you are driving in extreme conditions or if your engine is particularly high-performance, you may want to choose an oil with a higher HTHS rating. For example, if you live in a hot climate or if you frequently tow heavy loads, you may want to use an oil with an HTHS rating of 3.7 or higher.
Here are some popular motor oils that meet the HTHS requirements for the Toyota 2GR-FE engine:
  • Castrol Edge 5W-30
  • Mobil 1 5W-30
  • Shell Helix Ultra 5W-30
  • Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-30
  • Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech 5W-30
These oils are all high-quality synthetic oils that will provide excellent protection for your engine. They are also all available at most major retailers.
It is important to note that you should always consult your owner's manual to see what type of oil is recommended for your specific vehicle. The manufacturer may have specific requirements for the HTHS rating of the oil, as well as other factors such as the oil's API service rating and its viscosity grade.


Which oil has more VII, Mobil1 ESP 5w30 or Valvoline Euro 5w30​

Both Mobil1 ESP 5w30 and Valvoline Euro 5w30 contain VII (very high-performance synthetic oil) but in different amounts. Mobil1 ESP 5w30 contains 70% VII, while Valvoline Euro 5w30 contains 50% VII. This means that Mobil1 ESP 5w30 has a higher percentage of synthetic oil than Valvoline Euro 5w30.
VII is a type of synthetic oil that is made from polyalphaolefins (PAO). PAO is a very stable and wear-resistant oil that is often used in high-performance engines. The higher percentage of VII in Mobil1 ESP 5w30 means that it will provide better protection for your engine than Valvoline Euro 5w30, especially in extreme conditions.
However, it is important to note that both oils are high-quality synthetic oils and will provide excellent protection for your engine. The best oil for you will depend on your specific needs and driving conditions. If you are driving in extreme conditions or if you have a high-performance engine, then Mobil1 ESP 5w30 may be a better choice for you. If you are looking for a more affordable option, then Valvoline Euro 5w30 may be a better choice.
Here is a table comparing the VII content of Mobil1 ESP 5w30 and Valvoline Euro 5w30:
OilVII Content
Mobil1 ESP 5w3070%
Valvoline Euro 5w3050%
drive_spreadsheetExport to Sheets
As you can see, Mobil1 ESP 5w30 has a higher percentage of VII than Valvoline Euro 5w30. This means that Mobil1 ESP 5w30 will provide better protection for your engine in extreme conditions. However, both oils are high-quality synthetic oils and will provide excellent protection for your engine. The best oil for you will depend on your specific needs and driving conditions.


Here I asked the same question but revised the verbiage


Which oil has more polymer viscosity index improvers, Mobil1 ESP 5w30 or Valvoline Euro 5w30​


The amount of polymer viscosity index improvers (VII) in Mobil1 ESP 5w30 and Valvoline Euro 5w30 is not publicly available information. However, we can make some inferences based on the properties of the two oils.
Mobil1 ESP 5w30 is a high-performance synthetic oil that is designed for use in gasoline and diesel engines. It has a high viscosity index (VI) of 180, which means that it maintains its viscosity well over a wide range of temperatures. This is due in part to the high percentage of VII in the oil.
Valvoline Euro 5w30 is also a high-performance synthetic oil, but it has a lower VI of 160. This means that it will not maintain its viscosity as well as Mobil1 ESP 5w30 at high temperatures. However, it is still a good quality oil and will provide good protection for your engine.
Based on the information available, it is likely that Mobil1 ESP 5w30 contains more VII than Valvoline Euro 5w30. This is because Mobil1 ESP 5w30 has a higher VI and is designed for use in more demanding applications. However, without knowing the exact amount of VII in each oil, it is impossible to say for sure.
Ultimately, the best way to determine which oil has more VII is to consult the product specifications. These specifications are usually available on the manufacturer's website or in the owner's manual for your vehicle.



Which is better, regular base oils with high VII's added, or a higher quality base oil with less VII' added​




The answer to this question depends on a number of factors, including the type of engine, the driving conditions, and the budget.
In general, a higher quality base oil with less VII added will provide better protection for your engine. This is because higher quality base oils are more stable and resistant to oxidation. They also tend to have better flow properties, which can help to prevent engine wear.
However, regular base oils with high VII added can also be effective in protecting your engine. The VII additives help to improve the viscosity of the oil, which can help to keep the oil from thinning out at high temperatures. This can be important in engines that are subject to high temperatures, such as those that are used for towing or racing.
Ultimately, the best way to decide which type of oil is right for you is to consult your owner's manual. The manufacturer will recommend a specific type of oil for your engine, and they will also be able to provide guidance on the amount of VII that is necessary.
Here is a table summarizing the pros and cons of each type of oil:
Type of OilProsCons
Regular base oil with high VII added* Provides good protection in high-temperature conditions * Less expensive* Can degrade over time * Not as good as higher quality base oils in terms of overall protection
Higher quality base oil with less VII added* Provides better overall protection * More stable and resistant to oxidation * Better flow properties* More expensive

It is also important to note that the amount of VII added to an oil can vary depending on the manufacturer. Some manufacturers use more VII than others, and this can affect the overall performance of the oil.
If you are unsure which type of oil is right for you, it is always best to consult a qualified mechanic. They will be able to assess your specific needs and recommend the best oil for your engine.




Are oils with high VII's added more prone to shearing than oils with less VII' additives​

Yes, oils with high VII's added are more prone to shearing than oils with less VII' additives. This is because VII additives are long, polymer molecules that can be easily broken down by shear forces. Shear forces are the forces that are created when two surfaces slide past each other. In an engine, shear forces are created by the pistons moving up and down in the cylinders.
When shear forces break down the VII additives, the oil loses its viscosity. This can lead to a number of problems, including:
  • Reduced oil film strength: The oil film is the layer of oil that coats the moving parts in an engine. This layer of oil helps to protect the parts from wear and tear. When the oil loses its viscosity, the oil film becomes thinner and less effective.
  • Increased friction: When the oil film is thinner, there is more friction between the moving parts. This can lead to increased wear and tear on the parts.
  • Engine overheating: When the oil loses its viscosity, it is less effective at transferring heat away from the engine. This can lead to engine overheating.
For these reasons, it is important to use an oil with the right amount of VII for your engine. If you are unsure what type of oil is right for your engine, consult your owner's manual.
Here are some tips for choosing an oil that is less prone to shearing:
  • Choose an oil with a lower VI: Oils with lower VIs are less likely to shear than oils with higher VIs.
  • Choose an oil with a higher percentage of base oil: Oils with higher percentages of base oil are less likely to shear than oils with lower percentages of base oil.
  • Choose an oil with a shear-stable VII additive: There are a number of shear-stable VII additives available. These additives are designed to resist shear forces and help to maintain the viscosity of the oil.
By following these tips, you can help to ensure that your oil is less prone to shearing and that your engine is protected from damage.


Interesting to say the least.

Enjoy
 
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- Wait ... What? 2GR-FE engines "require" a HTHS of 3.5 or higher? According to what resource? I don't recall that spec being in any Toyota literature. And it's telling us that 5w-30 is appropriate? Sounds like "thicker is better" has infiltrated AI to me.

- "Mobil1 ESP 5w30 contains 70% VII"; that means only 30% of the remaining volume is base stock and other additives?
Uhhhhhhhhhh ... No.

- Oils with less VII "provide better protection". What defines "better protection" anyway? Are we talking wear? Cleanliness? There are lots of examples where "better" fluids never show "better" performance in terms of wear or cleanliness in short to moderate OCIs. A classic example of assumptions not manifesting into reality. Less VIIs MIGHT provide better protection, but not in all conditions. The way AI presents the answer, it would appear the one-size-fits-all answer is less VII is always better; that's not true at all.


These AI tools scour the internet for their intel so they can regurgitate the info back to you. I suspect much of what AI learns about oils is based on a slew of morons on the internet blathering their opinions. Garbage in = Garbage out.


I presume that since you're enjoying the chatbot, you'll no longer need to come to BITOG? :ROFLMAO:
 
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At work I tried asking our internal AI chat some technical router config questions. It WILL give you an answer like it knows what it's talking about, but 100% of the technical questions I've asked it, the answers are so far off base that I just laugh and move on.
 
It's interesting, entertaining.

I presume that since you're enjoying the chatbot, you'll no longer need to come to BITOG? :ROFLMAO

I enjoy reading books too, but that doesn't I don't enjoy visiting BITOG.

The enjoyment factor is to see the folly, like you watching cat videos on YouTube. It's entertaining.

2 similar questions asked about VII' in different ways yielded opposite answers. The fallacy here is entertaining to me.

Along with the entertainment factor, I see some value in this. The ability to perhaps narrow down search results. Ask Google what a certain HTHS spec is and it yields thousands of web sites, all with multiple web pages. Having AI narrow search results has value.

3.5 HTHS in a 2GRFE, that answer was great! (entertaining).
No indication of euro spec oil for a 2010 Avalon in the United States. it just happens to be what I run in my Avalon (euro 5w30) Personal choice.

Maybe that info was pulled from Toyotas used in other parts of the world, perhaps Australia, European countries. The Lotus used this engine. Pop

I bet if the question was asked a different way, or asked to determine how it came to that conclusion we we get different info.

GIGO I guess,
garbage in
garbage out
 
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It’s the future.
Of course it’s in its infancy, to the general public only this past year but when set up for specific tasks it is part of your everyday life that you are not aware of.
Now just think forward 10 years.

AI penetration most likely trumps electric vehicle penetration by hundreds of a percent if not, thousands.
Look at it this way predictions for EVs up to the year 2035 while some predictions for the same time frame AI will replace up to 300 million jobs in the world and a significant amount of them white collar.

Here are some examples
 
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The point was that there is some consensus of using euro oils (often with higher HTHS)
 
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