2021 Civic. 8k Oil Change. Severe fuel dilution.

[Cherrybomb]

Do yous see a problem w/ fuel injectors, I know that Honda had some problems w/ sticky injectors.

It doesn't hurt to wonder when you get a abnormal O.A.or smell or notice the level on the dipstick rising.But,isn't the direct injection technology the root of the problem?I have aV.W. Tiguan,10,000 mile service recommendation. My short trips won't let me do that,due to the fuel issue.I do 5,000 services,O.A.for peace of mind.I just moved on when I learned what works for me.

 

[Wat_MPG]

I use Mobil1 0w20 EP and never go over 4k, the Honda 1.5T is a dilluter, especially if short tripping, ultimately what you're concerned with is viscosity. There is no magic oil, a good oil changed more frequently is a better alternative to frequent UOA's cost considered. A 5W-30 will stay within acceptable viscosity limits a bit longer, and will work well in your engine. I've owned 5 Hondas with this engine, other than changing oil more frequently, they've been excellent vehicles, good mileage and power. BTY, it's a good idea to change CVT fluid every 30k (spill & fill) using only Honda fluid. Honda CVTs are virtually bullet proof if not abused and changed every 30k. Ignore the MM, it's an algorithm based on average use. Proactive maintenance beats reactive every time.

Mom in Law has the 1.5T in her CRV. What OCI did you settle on? I've been doing every 5K for her.

 

[Speedy3861]

Mom in Law has the 1.5T in her CRV. What OCI did you settle on? I've been doing every 5K for her.

Our CRV is almost exclusively short trips, it' my wife's grocery getter. It's a 2020 with only 12k, which is about 3k/a year, it gets changed every 6 months using Mobil1 5W-30 EP, as we're keeping it, that's just insurance. I consider short tripping severe service.

 

[Cherrybomb]

Our CRV is almost exclusively short trips, it' my wife's grocery getter. It's a 2020 with only 12k, which is about 3k/a year, it gets changed every 6 months using Mobil1 5W-30 EP, as we're keeping it, that's just insurance. I consider short tripping severe service.

I agree with you, thats severe service.Mobil 1 is good.Youve done what works for you.Just curious, have you ever done O.A.?

 

[FZ1]

So this is my very first time getting an oil analysis so I barely know what Im looking at. But I recall hearing the engine in my Honda is prone to fuel dilution so I got an oil analysis. Initially the strategy was to use very high grade oil (Amsoil SS) and try to get some life between intervals but if this report is any indication, it seems I should be changing every 4k instead of 8k. Car had 1,500 miles on it when I bought it. At 25k now. 8k miles on this analysis. Oil is Amsoil SS 0W-20.

View attachment 206831

Looks OK. 4-5k oci.

 

[Speedy3861]

I agree with you, thats severe service.Mobil 1 is good.Youve done what works for you.Just curious, have you ever done O.A.?

Yes, at about 4k with 2k on the Mobil1 0w20 EP we were using, UOA showed 3.5% dilution and oil thinned significantly below grade. MM showing 70% oil life, obviously a problem. Had a frank discussion with my Honda Certified Master Technician who suggested going to the 5W-30 EP and just changing twice a year. So far getting very little rise on the stick and the engine is quiet and smooth using this protocol. Could probably push a bit further, but I like having the car gone over twice a year. Next service will probably have the differential oil changed, Honda reccomends first differential change at 14-15k, but the car is almost 5 years old. Had the brake fluid done at 4 years as per recommendation, proactive maintenance beats reactive every time in the long-term, and I sleep better. The Civic seems a bit easier on oil, going to do a UOA at about 3k and see if it can go to 3500-4000. Not willing to go to Premium fuel as it's almost $1.00 a gallon more around here. Toptier 87 will have to do.

 

[Wat_MPG]

Yes, at about 4k with 2k on the Mobil1 0w20 EP we were using, UOA showed 3.5% dilution and oil thinned significantly below grade. MM showing 70% oil life, obviously a problem. Had a frank discussion with my Honda Certified Master Technician who suggested going to the 5W-30 EP and just changing twice a year. So far getting very little rise on the stick and the engine is quiet and smooth using this protocol. Could probably push a bit further, but I like having the car gone over twice a year. Next service will probably have the differential oil changed, Honda reccomends first differential change at 14-15k, but the car is almost 5 years old. Had the brake fluid done at 4 years as per recommendation, proactive maintenance beats reactive every time in the long-term, and I sleep better. The Civic seems a bit easier on oil, going to do a UOA at about 3k and see if it can go to 3500-4000. Not willing to go to Premium fuel as it's almost $1.00 a gallon more around here. Toptier 87 will have to do.

Honest question here...trying to understand. How does premium fuel reduce fuel dilution?

 

[tolian21]

Honest question here...trying to understand. How does premium fuel reduce fuel dilution?

It did nothing for me in 2.0T honda engine

 

[Speedy3861]

Honest question here...trying to understand. How does premium fuel reduce fuel dilution?

I have read on several forums, including here, that using higher octane fuel in a small displacement turbocharged DI engine will reduce OD, haven't heard a convincing reason yet. My personal theory is related to the low-tension piston rings being used. The Honda 1.5T is a naturally cool-running engine and it takes a while at highway speeds to get the oil hot enough to effectively evaporate fuel. This has been discussed almost to death, yet there are a Crap-ton of Honda 1.5t engines racking up high miles and still spinning happily along.

 

[Titan]

I have read on several forums, including here, that using higher octane fuel in a small displacement turbocharged DI engine will reduce OD, haven't heard a convincing reason yet. My personal theory is related to the low-tension piston rings being used. The Honda 1.5T is a naturally cool-running engine and it takes a while at highway speeds to get the oil hot enough to effectively evaporate fuel. This has been discussed almost to death, yet there are a Crap-ton of Honda 1.5t engines racking up high miles and still spinning happily along.

It's NOT the low-tension rings. MANY engines have those. My Camry 2.5 engine has low tension rings and will run 10,000 miles with no measurable oil loss and insignificant fuel dilution. Modern engines commonly operate on the edge of knock much of the time by running a lean Fuel/Air ratio. As soon as a knock is detected the quickest way to stop it is to richen the Fuel/Air ratio. Spraying this extra fuel results in some leaking past the rings. By running a fuel that is more resistant to knock (which is the only thing the Octane rating indicates...the higher the Octane rating the higher the resistance to ignition prior to the spark plug firing), there is theoretically (and seemingly verified to be true) less richening of the fuel/air ratio, so less dilution of the oil with excess fuel.

 

[himemsys]

Honest question here...trying to understand. How does premium fuel reduce fuel dilution?

Here are a couple of links talking about it:

Think I may have solved fuel dilution problem in our '18 CRV

Last oil change back in October, I put M1 ESP 5W30 in. I underfilled slightly (3.5 vs 3.7qt) to make it easier to track a rising oil level on the dipstick. I then turned off ECON mode and started using 91 octane exclusively. So far, through the winter and into spring (6 months and 2600 miles of...

bobistheoilguy.com

kirkland 5w-30, 3800 miles, Acura RDX 2020

When lab says its greater than 5%, I guess it can not measure above 5%, maybe it was more 6 or 7, who knows. I think I've seen over 5% shown from this lab before (6%,7%, etc). Maybe you can confirm? We have the same car as tolian21 and see the same test results. We have another car for around...

bobistheoilguy.com

I think this applies to TDI vehicles that can run on lower octane, but run better on high octane. The Honda 1.5 TDI is probably the best example. For some reason, Honda spec'd 87 octane when they should've spec'd 91. I have experienced this myself with our 2018 CRV. For the entire life of the vehicle, we used 87 and every oil change interval the oil climbed the dipstick by up to 20% above the full mark. When I switched to 91 octane exclusively, the rate the oil climbed the dipstick dropped drastically. In the summer, it doesn't seem to climb at all. In the winter, it still climbs, but less than it used to.

 

[tolian21]

yet there are a Crap-ton of Honda 1.5t engines racking up high miles and still spinning happily along.

So the logic if we have not seen many failures yet, it means fuel dilution is not an issue for Honda?
The automotive industry says that anything over 2-3% is abnormal and will cause excessive wear. We do not have may 200K+ 1.5t or 2.0t engines, we need to have these cars in use for 10+ years to see the full picture.

 

[Cherrybomb]

So the logic if we have not seen many failures yet, it means fuel dilution is not an issue for Honda?
The automotive industry says that anything over 2-3% is abnormal and will cause excessive wear. We do not have may 200K+ 1.5t or 2.0t engines, we need to have these cars in use for 10+ years to see the full picture.

Totally agree we will probably have to wait for some high mileage cars with some thorough O.A.data,did the oil and fuel rise on the stick,drivers habits and was the car subject to severe service,meaning short trips.There were so many great responses here,depending on your personal habits,you can come up with a plan to help protect your engine

 

[Danh]

As others have said, there are millions of these 1.5Ts running around with nothing more than the occasional anecdotal problem. But, depending on one’s definition of “long-term” ownership, if this is an area of concern consider buying a Honda long-term warranty. These are bumper-to-bumper and are surprisingly reasonable when bought from places like Sacuzzi (sp?) Honda. And these are actual Honda warranties, not from a third party.

Given the cost of repairs on things like a/c compressors, entertainment systems and the like, not a bad strategy. I’m in the new car market and may follow this path.

 

[Danh]

As others have said, there are millions of these 1.5Ts running around with nothing more than the occasional anecdotal problem. But, depending on one’s definition of “long-term” ownership, if this is an area of concern consider buying a Honda long-term warranty. These are bumper-to-bumper and are surprisingly reasonable when bought from places like Sacuzzi (sp?) Honda. And these are actual Honda warranties, not from a third party.

Given the cost of repairs on things like a/c compressors, entertainment systems and the like, not a bad strategy. I’m in the new car market and may follow this path.

Just priced warranty through Hyannis Honda: 2024 CRV: 8 years, 120,000 miles, $100 deductible: $1,052. Seems reasonable. And as Honda’s actuaries are continuously crunching numbers it wouldn’t seem they see alarming reliability/durability trends with the 1.5T/CVT combination. Only exclusions are typical wear and tear items like upholstery, tires, batteries, wiper blades, etc. Good at any Honda dealer nation wide.

 

[Cherrybomb]

Just priced warranty through Hyannis Honda: 2024 CRV: 8 years, 120,000 miles, $100 deductible: $1,052. Seems reasonable. And as Honda’s actuaries are continuously crunching numbers it wouldn’t seem they see alarming reliability/durability trends with the 1.5T/CVT combination. Only exclusions are typical wear and tear items like upholstery, tires, batteries, wiper blades, etc. Good at any Honda dealer nation wide.

That seems more than reasonable to me.If you trade,It probably doesn't transfer,is that correct?

 

[Speedy3861]

I have the Hondacare 120k/7yr warranty on both our cars, the CRV will time out before miles as at 4 years it only has 12k.
All that being a given, gas prices near us are typically like this
87 $3.63
89 $4.10
93 $4,43 (we don't have 91)
So, at $.80 a gallon difference with an average fill of 6 gallons that's $4.80 more per Fill, with an average of two fills a week, that's roughly $500 a year not counting longer trips, let's say $650-700 extra annually.
Without actually doing the math, seems like a few extra oil changes would be less expensive for the same results. 93 in the CRV would be doable but, again, it gets two oil changes a year.

 

[Danh]

That seems more than reasonable to me.If you trade,It probably doesn't transfer,is that correct?

I believe it does transfer. Or you can get a pro-rata refund (less claims paid) if you sell early. That’s my understanding at least; best to confirm before buying.

 

[twX]

I think this applies to TDI vehicles that can run on lower octane, but run better on high octane. The Honda 1.5 TDI is probably the best example. For some reason, Honda spec'd 87 octane when they should've spec'd 91.

Yes, if an engine is picking up knock events, it will retard the ignition timing, and more fuel will be required to achieve a given power output. A small amount of extra fuel can cause a large increase in dilution at higher engine loads, since the last bit of fuel is sprayed into the cylinder when the piston is low in the cylinder.

Here's an example of an engine tuned for the same power output with low and high octane fuels. With the low octane, 15% more fuel is injected, resulting in 4 times as much dilution at maximum engine power. For an engine with no tuning changes, no more fuel would be injected at full throttle, but there would still be more fuel required at part throttle at a given engine power output.

If an engine isn't picking up much knock, higher octane fuel won't have much of a benefit, but for some engines it could make a big difference, especially if they're driven hard.

The other thing to consider is that in some places, lower octane fuels contain more ethanol. For many engines, more ethanol will result in more fuel injected.

 

[himemsys]

With the low octane, 15% more fuel is injected, resulting in 4 times as much dilution at maximum engine power.

with 91 roughly 20% more expensive than 87, it seems that you might almost make up the cost difference in efficiency/fuel economy.