2011 Audi S4 with 3.0L TSI Supercharged

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Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
nuskool - You asked me this;
"But now I want to ask how intake deposits can be affected by changing the oil too soon?"

I cannot go any further on this matter except to say that this is one factor being researched by all of the parties concerned.

My advice FWIW? - stick to what the engines manufacturer recommends!


I'm going to guess that frequent changes could replenish the volatile components that are driven out of the crankcase early in the OCI. These make their way through the PCV system and into the intake, leaving deposits.

I know nothing about engines, though. Does this scenario make sense to more knowledgeable folks?
 
This is getting too confusing. Over the last few years I have seen arguments where excessive fuel dilution overwhelms the oil's capacity : shearing of its viscosity was reputed to be a symptom of this problem. If oil was left in much beyond this point, its flashpoint would lower and rapid volatilization of the oil would result.

A new oil was even developed based on these observations. Frequent oil changes were recommended if using "conventional"oils.

Have things changed?

Equally confusing is the availability of oils that are VW 502 AND BMW LL 04/ MB 229.31-51 approved.
 
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Hi,
Confusing? yes? - We tend to make it so on here by second guessing what more knowledgeable people than us already know. These people are the design and development Engineers and the associated Lubricant Engineers that they work with

IMO and experience the simpple answer is to follow the engine Manufacturer's recommendations

Bruno - The M186 engine started off with carburettors. As it evoloved into the last M198 it had four variations, even to a change in block structure. I believe that M198 111 & 4 were port injected at the end of the roadster's production. It all matters little of course - just to reiterate that MB & Bosch worked wonders with mecahanical injection commening 1n the mid 1930s

One problem with the DI 300SL (M198 1,11) was getting the oil hot enough to counter the fuel dilution - a dry sump probably didn't help!
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Confusing? yes? - We tend to make it so on here by second guessing what more knowledgeable people than us already know. These people are the design and development Engineers and the associated Lubricant Engineers that they work with

IMO and experience the simpple answer is to follow the engine Manufacturer's recommendations

Bruno - The M186 engine started off with carburettors. As it evoloved into the last M198 it had four variations, even to a change in block structure. I believe that M198 111 & 4 were port injected at the end of the roadster's production. It all matters little of course - just to reiterate that MB & Bosch worked wonders with mecahanical injection commening 1n the mid 1930s

One problem with the DI 300SL (M198 1,11) was getting the oil hot enough to counter the fuel dilution - a dry sump probably didn't help!





Agree.....in an ideal world. Consider however that the final recommendations are always a compromise. As an example BMW allegedly ended up recommending 5W-30 oil on the E39 M5 instead of Castrol TWS as a result of complaints of oil poor availability and high cost.
 
Hi,
felixthecat - I recall the BMW E39 M series "issue" as a manufacturing defect that caused the problems - the problem resulted in a higher viscosity lubricant being specified. Perhaps I'm wrong?
 
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
... Agree.....in an ideal world. Consider however that the final recommendations are always a compromise. As an example BMW allegedly ended up recommending 5W-30 oil on the E39 M5 instead of Castrol TWS as a result of complaints of oil poor availability and high cost.


It was never clear what caused BMW to switch the E39 M5 (of which I owned two) from TWS 10w-60 as it was originally introduced in Europe to 5w-30 when it was released in North America in the second year of production. From February 2000 onward, the engine was approved with BOTH oils - you were free to choose (most owners chose TWS).

There never were any problems with the M5 on either oil. However, the E46 M3 with the S54 inline 6 engine did have reliability problems early on that were ultimately traced to two different causes that had nothing to do with engine oil. As with the E39 M5, the car was released in North America with 5w-30 from the factory. Then engines started failing, and during the "what could possibly be wrong" phase, BMW recalled the cars and converted them permanently to TWS. Since that change, all M vehicles use TWS, and it's readily available from both BMW and Castrol (as Edge 10w-60).

The real cause of the S54 engine problems was errors in manufacturing. One batch of failures was caused by improperly cleaned engine block castings (residual sand) and the second by improperly made crankshaft bearings.
 
Originally Posted By: jaj
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
... Agree.....in an ideal world. Consider however that the final recommendations are always a compromise. As an example BMW allegedly ended up recommending 5W-30 oil on the E39 M5 instead of Castrol TWS as a result of complaints of oil poor availability and high cost.


It was never clear what caused BMW to switch the E39 M5 (of which I owned two) from TWS 10w-60 as it was originally introduced in Europe to 5w-30 when it was released in North America in the second year of production. From February 2000 onward, the engine was approved with BOTH oils - you were free to choose (most owners chose TWS).

There never were any problems with the M5 on either oil. However, the E46 M3 with the S54 inline 6 engine did have reliability problems early on that were ultimately traced to two different causes that had nothing to do with engine oil. As with the E39 M5, the car was released in North America with 5w-30 from the factory. Then engines started failing, and during the "what could possibly be wrong" phase, BMW recalled the cars and converted them permanently to TWS. Since that change, all M vehicles use TWS, and it's readily available from both BMW and Castrol (as Edge 10w-60).

The real cause of the S54 engine problems was errors in manufacturing. One batch of failures was caused by improperly cleaned engine block castings (residual sand) and the second by improperly made crankshaft bearings.



The two oil viscosities are so different that I think marketing had more of an influence than engineering in the decision to use 5w-30.
I am well aware of the mechanical issue behind the engine failures, just giving an example were "manufacturer knows best" advice maybe a compromise of factors.
 
Originally Posted By: Sunstealer
I just placed an order for an Audi S4 with the 3.0 Liter direct injected engine with factory supercharger. Audi pays for the first oil change at 5000 miles, and then recommends one every 10,000 miles afterward.


Are you sure about that? In Canada, it's 5k, 15k, then every 15k or 1 year. 10k would be a good interval though.

The dealer includes the changes at 5k, 15k, 30k, and 45k for my buddy's S4. He'd have preferred to do one at 2.5k and split the other intervals too, leaving the filter in place. GC 0W-30 for winter and Syntec 5W-40 in summer. Both were pretty cheap at Wal-Mart recently - $6.30 per liter for GC and $5.80 for 5W-40 - so that would have been a good time for him to stock up. Owner's manual semantic issues are not a consideration in this theoretical scenario as he will not officially be doing any maintenance himself during the warranty period.
 
I'm concerned about deposits in my TSI, and the issue of changing too often. I've done a lot of changes early on, and plan on settling on 3x a year w/various oils.

My ocis may come out to 5k, I'm doing a lot of short trips now.

I'm using Top Tier fuel, 2C, Techron maint dose, a super-premium oils, I dunno what else to do!
21.gif


I also never overfill the oil.
 
We kind of got off topic here, but interesting discussion anyway. So, between these three, any reason to pick one over the other:

Castrol Syntec 5W-40
Mobil 0W-40
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-40
 
PP/PU, definately.

Syntec is an old high magnesium formula from VW 502 1998. I think the Shell product is almost 10 years newer.
 
That's the way I was leaning anyway, I have used Pennzoil products for years. I was worried about the availability, but it looks like you can order it direct from them now. I might check with the local distributor and see if they can get it too.
 
VW speced oils routinely fail to protect the engine.

Biosyn.jpg


Unspeced oils appear to work ideally.

Edge_7500mi_uoa.jpg


You pick your poison and go with it.
 
With all the variables that can affect the results, I do not think that with less than 50 points of data the conclusions could be called evidence based.
 
FWIW, to the OP....the SLX Professional OE 5W30 oil is 502 spec and used readily by the dealers. (And it is available over the parts counter for around $7 / quart).

They will, however, likely use the SLX Professional LL3 5W30 oil (504 spec) in your car, as they use this oil in all 2007+ gas cars at my local dealers.

BTW, I have a number of UOA on the SLX Pro OE oil which indicated the oil held up fine until the last one I did at around 9K miles. As Doug says, the TBN depletion is very unlinear (is that a word? :) ) It uses up TBN quickly immediately after fill, and then depletion drops fairly significantly.

I did change the SLX OE oil at around 9K miles because I got sick and tired of hearing the infamous cam chain rattle at startup - and I switched to the slightly heavier PU Euro 5W40 (no more cam chain rattle). I recommend this oil to all S4 owners, as it really does minimize the horrible 1-3 seconds rattle after startup, and it is officially certified 502 oil.
 
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