20w20 went in this afternoon

[buster]

I hope Valvoline continues to make the 20wt. They said they were pulling it.

As GMAN said, most of your top synthetics like RL 5w-20/Amsoil/M1 probably use little to no VII's in their 20wts.

With Redline oils, all of their grades except 5w-40 use no VII's, hence the strong shear stability.

 

[wavinwayne]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
....So we could correctly have an oil labeled 0w5w10w15w20w25w40


No doubt, VW would be the first to spec. such an oil.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: buster
With Redline oils, all of their grades except 5w-40 use no VII's, hence the strong shear stability.


Buster touches on what I believe is the main (if not only) reason Redline oils have higher HTHS numbers than other oils of the same viscosity.

All else being equal, an oil that attains its 100C vis through the use of VI improvers will have a lower HTHS vis than an oil of the same 100C vis with no VI improvers. Thus, Valvoline straight 20 will have a higher HTHS vis than Valvoline 5w20. Redline 5w20 has a higher HTHS vis than other 5w20s on the market.

 

[oilyriser]

The 20w20 I used had an HTHS viscosity of around 2.9 but I found one on the web yesterday that was listed at 2.6, with a visc of 7.5 at 100C. One 10w had an HTHS of 2.6.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: buster
I hope Valvoline continues to make the 20wt. They said they were pulling it.


It's still on the Valvoline web site, and in the latest PDS.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: buster
With Redline oils, all of their grades except 5w-40 use no VII's, hence the strong shear stability.


Buster touches on what I believe is the main (if not only) reason Redline oils have higher HTHS numbers than other oils of the same viscosity.


I believe the HTHS will be fairly close to that of the base oil in a VII ammended oil. Redline 5w20 HTHS IIRC is 3.2, which is better than some 10w30s out there.

I wonder though if (besides the no VII thing) an ester or PAO have an inherently higher HTHS than lower groups, not much, but some edge.

 

[RWEST]

Quote:
a bottle labeled 20w-20.

I remember seeing quart cans (back in the early 70's) with a 20W/20 label, or maybe it was 20/20W. My future Father-in-Law ran it in his Ford gas powered F600/700's. "Gulfpride" I think it was. Maybe if I'd spent more time looking at the oil cans than looking at his daughter, I'd be more certain of the numbers (the oil cans', not hers!!

).

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: buster
With Redline oils, all of their grades except 5w-40 use no VII's, hence the strong shear stability.


Buster touches on what I believe is the main (if not only) reason Redline oils have higher HTHS numbers than other oils of the same viscosity.


I believe the HTHS will be fairly close to that of the base oil in a VII ammended oil. Redline 5w20 HTHS IIRC is 3.2, which is better than some 10w30s out there.

I wonder though if (besides the no VII thing) an ester or PAO have an inherently higher HTHS than lower groups, not much, but some edge.


I wonder that too. I think POE's do have a higher film strength but probably only noticeable under the most extreme conditions.

I'm going to call Valv. to see whether they are going to stop making the straight 20wt. Last time I called they said they were.

 

[dkcase]

Originally Posted By: RWEST
Quote:
a bottle labeled 20w-20.

I remember seeing quart cans (back in the early 70's) with a 20W/20 label, or maybe it was 20/20W. My future Father-in-Law ran it in his Ford gas powered F600/700's. ....


I believe the oils were then labeled 20 / 20W.

I have posted a couple places to see if someone agrees or has an example, but no one's backed up my memory.

Nor have I found any pictures of cans showing the tops... Maybe I made it up. For sure everyone now uses "20W20."

 

[G-MAN]

The cans I remember from the 60s had 20W-20 on them.

 

[BarkerMan]

I think that oils withoug VII's are better oil, but may not be better for a given application. I'm running a straight 40 weight oil only because my engine is consuming more oil and I moved up from a straight 30 weight. I use Delo 400 a diesel rated oil and have had good results. I think the idea of using a 20w-20 in the winter makes good sense, but I live in S Calif and we don't have weather here so I can get away with 30 or 40 weight all year round.

 

[wileyE]

OK, guys your right. I was just thinking back to when 20w20 was a common grade for engines, and figured that you had old stock. In the day it did have VI (vs. the sae20 oils), and the "W" was the tip off.

Qoute: "To differentiate between 'straight' oils and those which had viscosity modifiers added, the winter or 'w' rating test was introduced"

http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/engine_oil_history.shtml

 

[Audi Junkie]

50w-20

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
I can confirm that 20w-20 lubricants were quite popular in the 1950s-1960s

In Scandinavia I used them as a winter lubricant in VW, Porsche, Benz, Saab V4 (Ford Taunus), Opel, Volvo and etc. vehicles with great success

About then (mid 1960s) I commenced using HD (now known as HDEO) lubricants in most engines after carrying out engine deposit control research for Caltex-Chevron

In the correct application 20w-20 lubricants were/are great performers

Regards
Doug

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: wileyE
OK, guys your right. I was just thinking back to when 20w20 was a common grade for engines, and figured that you had old stock. In the day it did have VI (vs. the sae20 oils), and the "W" was the tip off.

Qoute: "To differentiate between 'straight' oils and those which had viscosity modifiers added, the winter or 'w' rating test was introduced"

http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/engine_oil_history.shtml


Yeah, well that quote is wrong. 20w20 was, is, and always has been a straight grade oil without VI improvers. 20w20 predates true multi-grade oils that used VI improvers by about ten years.

 

[G-MAN]

I had to be in court today in Union so got lots of driving and starts in. There is no bearing rattle on cold or hot starts with the straight 20 either. This means on every oil I've tried in my car I've had bearing rattle on start up, except for GC and Valvoline 20 and 30. Anyone want to guess what these three oils all have in common?

 

[Shannow]

They went into your car ?

Or is that "circumstantial"

(I know what answer you are after, and agree with your assessment)

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
I had to be in court today in Union so got lots of driving and starts in. There is no bearing rattle on cold or hot starts with the straight 20 either. This means on every oil I've tried in my car I've had bearing rattle on start up, except for GC and Valvoline 20 and 30. Anyone want to guess what these three oils all have in common?


Interesting. Yes, they all have no VII's. I don't think GC does either, or very little at least.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
I had to be in court today in Union so got lots of driving and starts in. There is no bearing rattle on cold or hot starts with the straight 20 either. This means on every oil I've tried in my car I've had bearing rattle on start up, except for GC and Valvoline 20 and 30. Anyone want to guess what these three oils all have in common?


Interesting. Yes, they all have no VII's. I don't think GC does either, or very little at least.


No VIIs showed up in the gas chromatograph test of GC.

 

[JAG]

From what I gather, no polymeric viscosity index improvers showed up in the test. It uses a different sort of viscosity index improvers from what I gather (from Bruce's posts). He even has the stuff, apparently.

I recently started using Amsoil ACD SAE 30 recently, BTW. It's too soon to report anything of worth.