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BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video

Posted By: E365

BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 04:23 AM

Good watch (good channel too).

Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 05:32 AM

I am not big fan of chain in the back. So far it proved stout in since 2016.
Posted By: zorobabel

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 05:33 AM

Good channel indeed!
Posted By: Roadstar_RIder

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 06:06 AM

As someone who's worked on many BMWs this video makes me cringe. I guess you're supposed to toss these things in the crusher after the warranty is up.
Posted By: Ws6

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 08:56 AM

Cool video, but the C8 Corvette will do a more complete job of tearing it down at the same price-point.
Posted By: FowVay

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 09:00 AM


Originally Posted by Roadstar_RIder
As someone who's worked on many BMWs this video makes me cringe. I guess you're supposed to toss these things in the crusher after the warranty is up.

I thought the exact same thing. This certainly isn't for the DIY'er. For me, wrenching on my cars is half the fun of ownership.
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by edyvw
I am not big fan of chain in the back. So far it proved stout in since 2016.


+1
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Roadstar_RIder
As someone who's worked on many BMWs this video makes me cringe. I guess you're supposed to toss these things in the crusher after the warranty is up.


Anything in particular that you noticed? I'm sincerely interested in your opinion.
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 11:27 AM

Very cool video. I'm curious to see how much difficulty they have getting to 1,000 hp because for example IIRC the valve train and valve cover are physically designed to limit the max amount of lift. This is one of the differences between the "Supra" B58 and the "BMW" B58.
Posted By: Bjornviken

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 11:30 AM

looks like a solid engine
Posted By: atikovi

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by edyvw
I am not big fan of chain in the back. So far it proved stout in since 2016.


That's probably what they said of Audi's S4.
Posted By: Lolvoguy

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Roadstar_RIder
As someone who's worked on many BMWs this video makes me cringe. I guess you're supposed to toss these things in the crusher after the warranty is up.


Anything in particular that you noticed? I'm sincerely interested in your opinion.

popcorn2
Posted By: LeoStrop

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 05:00 PM

Oh man, only 500 miles and those pistons already look like they have a lot of carbon.
Posted By: BISCUT

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 05:34 PM

Great video!
Posted By: andyd

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 06:17 PM

School me please. What, pray tell, is the rationale behind a rear timing chain/belt? In the factory, the cabins are dropped onto the drive train The right way to take out an engine is on the sub-frame from underneath and then split off the engine or trans to service. KA- Ching!! and difficult to bodge behind the shop. The main reason I don't have a late model Ranger 4x4 is a rear cam drive 4.0L Take a good reliable little gas hog capable of 300K with little service and turn it into a grenade at 150K miles . A century of development going into push rod V engines. Then these OHC horror shows. What is the impetus to do this for Ford or BMW or any car maker? coffee
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by andyd
School me please. What, pray tell, is the rationale behind a rear timing chain/belt? In the factory, the cabins are dropped onto the drive train The right way to take out an engine is on the sub-frame from underneath and then split off the engine or trans to service. KA- Ching!! and difficult to bodge behind the shop. The main reason I don't have a late model Ranger 4x4 is a rear cam drive 4.0L Take a good reliable little gas hog capable of 300K with little service and turn it into a grenade at 150K miles . A century of development going into push rod V engines. Then these OHC horror shows. What is the impetus to do this for Ford or BMW or any car maker? coffee


BMW went to a modular manufacturing process for their engine blocks in order to reduce costs. Part of this process included the standardization of the location of the timing gear to the rear. B-series engines include Inline 6,4, and I think 3 cylinders. In addition these blocks are all closed deck which enables them to be used for diesel-powered variants. BMW has a history of timing chain issues and IIRC the guinea pig for this layout was the 4-cylinder diesel N47. Some N26-N20 also have timing chain issues (extended 7/70 warranty for affected models).

In the past BMW had unique blocks for the various engine types (gas/diesel, I4,I6).

Posted By: DGXR

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 10:41 PM

Looks like a solid performance engine but I don't like the rear cam chain and I don't like tearing apart a brand new engine. Still enjoyed the video laugh
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 11:14 PM

He has a bunch of really good videos on his channel. I remember back when people were first starting to race Hondas he was the front runner in the import drag racing scene.
Posted By: PimTac

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/14/19 11:16 PM

Interesting to say the least.

So what happens to the Supra now? These guys will slap the engine back together, reinstall and get it on the market at a discount? Sounds like a upcoming thread here on BITOG.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/15/19 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by edyvw
I am not big fan of chain in the back. So far it proved stout in since 2016.


That's probably what they said of Audi's S4.

That is reason why I do not like it. But, it seems that this is far less problematic (if at all). Also, on some BMW forums I read that engine actually does not have to come out using tools specific for this generation of engines. How? Have no idea.
Also, BMW brought back regular water pump. But they just could not help themselves and had to put ECU run thermostat.
Also, looking at video I noticed oil filter housing to be completely new design. Gasket on those was an issue forever on BMW's. Cheap to do it, but annoying.
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/15/19 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by PimTac
Interesting to say the least.

So what happens to the Supra now? These guys will slap the engine back together, reinstall and get it on the market at a discount? Sounds like a upcoming thread here on BITOG.




I think it will be going into one of their racecars.
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/15/19 04:51 AM

What's the HP rating on that stock motor?
Posted By: 02SE

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/15/19 04:54 AM

They're claiming 335 hp.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/15/19 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
What's the HP rating on that stock motor?

335, but as it is always the case with BMW, numbers on wheels are much higher than they should be considering hp on crank. BMW has really efficient hp transfer to the wheels (that is argued). So either they undervalue hp on crank or drivetrain is really efficient.
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/15/19 06:42 AM

335 HP stock and they want to get 1000 HP out of it. eek The main bearing design (with the windage tray adding support) looks kind of wimpy to support that level of power and remain reliable. Should be interesting to see how they do it.
Posted By: 02SE

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/15/19 06:52 AM

It all depends on what the parameters of 'reliable' are. There have been turbocharged Hayabusa engines developing 1200 hp.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/15/19 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
335 HP stock and they want to get 1000 HP out of it. eek The main bearing design (with the windage tray adding support) looks kind of wimpy to support that level of power and remain reliable. Should be interesting to see how they do it.

People get 900hp out of BMW N54 regularly and for the power, they work pretty well.
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/15/19 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
335 HP stock and they want to get 1000 HP out of it. eek The main bearing design (with the windage tray adding support) looks kind of wimpy to support that level of power and remain reliable. Should be interesting to see how they do it.


The version used in the M340i makes over 380 HP. This SUPRA version was purposely de-tuned (My N55 makes 335 hp). What I wonder is whether or not the coating on the cylinder walls can take the added load. This engine is NOT sleeved.
Posted By: antonmnster

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/16/19 01:01 AM

So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/16/19 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by antonmnster
So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.


Anything other than penalty boxes... I mean econoboxes... I mean boring appliances... er, frugal, reliable vehicles are automatically disregarded for being too expensive or referred to as “unreliable” with absolutely no real world experience. It is IMPOSSIBLE to drive a BMW 200k with no issues! wink
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/16/19 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by antonmnster
So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.


Anything other than penalty boxes... I mean econoboxes... I mean boring appliances... er, frugal, reliable vehicles are automatically disregarded for being too expensive or referred to as “unreliable” with absolutely no real world experience. It is IMPOSSIBLE to drive a BMW 200k with no issues! wink



Any BMW can go 200k miles. It's just a matter of having the will and the $$. It's a question of durability. For example early electronic water pumps on the N54 would routinely fail just north of 50k miles. That's unacceptable to a Lexus owner who has 150k miles on his/her original water pump.




Originally Posted by antonmnster
So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.


Well if you had the N20-N26 or N47 diesel you might have a different opinion about BMW and timing chains.
Posted By: jeepman3071

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/16/19 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by antonmnster
So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.


Anything other than penalty boxes... I mean econoboxes... I mean boring appliances... er, frugal, reliable vehicles are automatically disregarded for being too expensive or referred to as “unreliable” with absolutely no real world experience. It is IMPOSSIBLE to drive a BMW 200k with no issues! wink


Yup.

I drove mine on a 2600 mile road trip and hammered the crap out of it. I drove through the smoky mountains, the blue ridge parkway, down mountain dirt roads, did tail of the dragon, and it didn't miss a beat. All while carrying plenty of gear for two people.
Posted By: jeepman3071

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/16/19 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by antonmnster
So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.


Anything other than penalty boxes... I mean econoboxes... I mean boring appliances... er, frugal, reliable vehicles are automatically disregarded for being too expensive or referred to as “unreliable” with absolutely no real world experience. It is IMPOSSIBLE to drive a BMW 200k with no issues! wink



Any BMW can go 200k miles. It's just a matter of having the will and the $$. It's a question of durability. For example early electronic water pumps on the N54 would routinely fail just north of 50k miles. That's unacceptable to a Lexus owner who has 150k miles on his/her original water pump.




Originally Posted by antonmnster
So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.


Well if you had the N20-N26 or N47 diesel you might have a different opinion about BMW and timing chains.


So would owners of the 3.5 V6 in many newer Fords.
Posted By: jeepman3071

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/16/19 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by andyd
School me please. What, pray tell, is the rationale behind a rear timing chain/belt? In the factory, the cabins are dropped onto the drive train The right way to take out an engine is on the sub-frame from underneath and then split off the engine or trans to service. KA- Ching!! and difficult to bodge behind the shop. The main reason I don't have a late model Ranger 4x4 is a rear cam drive 4.0L Take a good reliable little gas hog capable of 300K with little service and turn it into a grenade at 150K miles . A century of development going into push rod V engines. Then these OHC horror shows. What is the impetus to do this for Ford or BMW or any car maker? coffee


Wait, so you didn't own a Ranger with the 4.0 SOHC V6 because basically two years of production might have had an issue with the timing chain which was solved after 2001? ??? My friend owned a 2001 which was one of the "problem" years and it went to 200k with zero issues before he sold it.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/16/19 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by antonmnster
So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.


Anything other than penalty boxes... I mean econoboxes... I mean boring appliances... er, frugal, reliable vehicles are automatically disregarded for being too expensive or referred to as “unreliable” with absolutely no real world experience. It is IMPOSSIBLE to drive a BMW 200k with no issues! wink



Any BMW can go 200k miles. It's just a matter of having the will and the $$. It's a question of durability. For example early electronic water pumps on the N54 would routinely fail just north of 50k miles. That's unacceptable to a Lexus owner who has 150k miles on his/her original water pump.




Originally Posted by antonmnster
So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.


Well if you had the N20-N26 or N47 diesel you might have a different opinion about BMW and timing chains.


So would owners of the 3.5 V6 in many newer Fords.

Toyota 2GR-FE had tensioner issues in first years too.
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/16/19 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl



Any BMW can go 200k miles. It's just a matter of having the will and the $$. It's a question of durability. For example early electronic water pumps on the N54 would routinely fail just north of 50k miles. That's unacceptable to a Lexus owner who has 150k miles on his/her original water pump.


Sounds like the 5.7 HEMI water pumps. I’d still take replacing water pumps every 50k over a Lexus though.
Posted By: MCompact

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/16/19 11:01 PM

As I've said many times before, if your idea of the pinnacle of automotive excellence is an anodyne travel pod that can go 300k miles with minimal maintenance, than a BMW is not for you. As for me, the enjoyment I've derived from the BMWs I've owned since 1983 vastly outweigh the additional expense of maintaining them.
Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by antonmnster
So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.


Anything other than penalty boxes... I mean econoboxes... I mean boring appliances... er, frugal, reliable vehicles are automatically disregarded for being too expensive or referred to as “unreliable” with absolutely no real world experience. It is IMPOSSIBLE to drive a BMW 200k with no issues! wink


Yup.

I drove mine on a 2600 mile road trip and hammered the crap out of it. I drove through the smoky mountains, the blue ridge parkway, down mountain dirt roads, did tail of the dragon, and it didn't miss a beat. All while carrying plenty of gear for two people.


As I've said many times before, if your idea of the pinnacle of automotive excellence is an anodyne travel pod that can go 300k miles with minimal maintenance, than a BMW is not for you. As for me, the enjoyment I've derived from the BMWs I've owned since 1983 vastly outweigh the additional expense of maintaining them.
Posted By: madRiver

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/17/19 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Bjornviken
looks like a solid engine


Looked not looks.....
Posted By: madRiver

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/17/19 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by MCompact
As I've said many times before, if your idea of the pinnacle of automotive excellence is an anodyne travel pod that can go 300k miles with minimal maintenance, than a BMW is not for you. As for me, the enjoyment I've derived from the BMWs I've owned since 1983 vastly outweigh the additional expense of maintaining them.
Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by antonmnster
So much ignorance and fear of anything new. My n54 has 210,000 miles on it, original chains and turbos, and I'd be totally fine if the chains were on the back. I've had BMWs for 20 years, and had only one chain tensioner go weak on my 318is from 1991. The rest have been perfect for 250k+. I just drove to Detroit and back and loved the performance and relative efficiency, even running 5-40 Delo.

This engine looks like a simplified version of my n54 in some respects. The lack of driver engagement of modern BMWs is worthy of a lot of criticism, but not the engines.


Anything other than penalty boxes... I mean econoboxes... I mean boring appliances... er, frugal, reliable vehicles are automatically disregarded for being too expensive or referred to as “unreliable” with absolutely no real world experience. It is IMPOSSIBLE to drive a BMW 200k with no issues! wink


Yup.

I drove mine on a 2600 mile road trip and hammered the crap out of it. I drove through the smoky mountains, the blue ridge parkway, down mountain dirt roads, did tail of the dragon, and it didn't miss a beat. All while carrying plenty of gear for two people.


As I've said many times before, if your idea of the pinnacle of automotive excellence is an anodyne travel pod that can go 300k miles with minimal maintenance, than a BMW is not for you. As for me, the enjoyment I've derived from the BMWs I've owned since 1983 vastly outweigh the additional expense of maintaining them.


These clowns just reduced the car to about 30k with problems once they put that back in.
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/17/19 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by madRiver


These clowns just reduced the car to about 30k with problems once they put that back in.


Ah yes... long term reliability is at the top of my list in a custom built 1,000hp vehicle. smirk2

Or, maybe it takes 1,000hp with no major problems. You have no idea.
Posted By: Pew

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/17/19 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by MCompact
As I've said many times before, if your idea of the pinnacle of automotive excellence is an anodyne travel pod that can go 300k miles with minimal maintenance, than a BMW is not for you. As for me, the enjoyment I've derived from the BMWs I've owned since 1983 vastly outweigh the additional expense of maintaining them.



As much as I dislike driving BMWs after being a porter for them, I must say, the M235i is pretty fun to drive. I'm just glad it's my friend's car and not mine lol.
Posted By: rooflessVW

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/17/19 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by edyvw
I am not big fan of chain in the back. So far it proved stout in since 2016.

That's probably what they said of Audi's S4.

The difference between the two designs is staggering; the only thing they have in common is where the chain is physically located.
Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
looks like a solid engine

Looked not looks.....

No, looks. It looks like a beast of a motor that will handle big power - as he said in the video.
Originally Posted by madRiver
These clowns just reduced the car to about 30k with problems once they put that back in.

"Clowns" Not the word I'd use to describe the builder in the video. It's a word that suits several of the posters here though.
Posted By: Garak

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/22/19 02:11 AM

My position on this vehicle has mellowed a bit, considering that the pricing is significantly less than I expected.
Posted By: Y_K

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/22/19 04:57 AM

How many M Series vehicles do they sell now?
Posted By: mehullica

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/22/19 08:24 AM

This thread is going nowhere fast
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/23/19 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by andyd
School me please. What, pray tell, is the rationale behind a rear timing chain/belt? In the factory, the cabins are dropped onto the drive train The right way to take out an engine is on the sub-frame from underneath and then split off the engine or trans to service. KA- Ching!! and difficult to bodge behind the shop. The main reason I don't have a late model Ranger 4x4 is a rear cam drive 4.0L Take a good reliable little gas hog capable of 300K with little service and turn it into a grenade at 150K miles . A century of development going into push rod V engines. Then these OHC horror shows. What is the impetus to do this for Ford or BMW or any car maker? coffee


Chain on back of engine, or toward the center of the car, is for weight distribution. Keeping that extra weight off the front/nose of the car has handling advantages. Of course that means you have to pull the engine for timing chain service...
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/23/19 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by andyd
School me please. What, pray tell, is the rationale behind a rear timing chain/belt? In the factory, the cabins are dropped onto the drive train The right way to take out an engine is on the sub-frame from underneath and then split off the engine or trans to service. KA- Ching!! and difficult to bodge behind the shop. The main reason I don't have a late model Ranger 4x4 is a rear cam drive 4.0L Take a good reliable little gas hog capable of 300K with little service and turn it into a grenade at 150K miles . A century of development going into push rod V engines. Then these OHC horror shows. What is the impetus to do this for Ford or BMW or any car maker? coffee


Chain on back of engine, or toward the center of the car, is for weight distribution. Keeping that extra weight off the front/nose of the car has handling advantages. Of course that means you have to pull the engine for timing chain service...

Not necessarily. BMW was able to achieve perfect distribution with older engines. 335i with N55 engine had distribution 49/51% in F30 model. I think return of good ole mechanical pump and some other design changes made timing chain in the back more efficient.
Also, according to some people on bimmerfest and other forums engine does not have to come out to change chain if special tools are available. How? I have no idea.
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/23/19 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by edyvw
Not necessarily. BMW was able to achieve perfect distribution with older engines. 335i with N55 engine had distribution 49/51% in F30 model.


I can build a car with 2000 pounds in front of the front axle and 2000 pounds behind the rear axle and get a "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution.

But would you track such a car? Or would you prefer that the weight be more concentrated toward the center of the vehicle?

BMW's obsession with "weight distribution" is little more than marketing. It's not really about 50/50 front/rear. More important is where the weight is located.
Posted By: mightymousetech

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/24/19 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by andyd
School me please. What, pray tell, is the rationale behind a rear timing chain/belt? In the factory, the cabins are dropped onto the drive train The right way to take out an engine is on the sub-frame from underneath and then split off the engine or trans to service. KA- Ching!! and difficult to bodge behind the shop. The main reason I don't have a late model Ranger 4x4 is a rear cam drive 4.0L Take a good reliable little gas hog capable of 300K with little service and turn it into a grenade at 150K miles . A century of development going into push rod V engines. Then these OHC horror shows. What is the impetus to do this for Ford or BMW or any car maker? coffee


Chain on back of engine, or toward the center of the car, is for weight distribution. Keeping that extra weight off the front/nose of the car has handling advantages. Of course that means you have to pull the engine for timing chain service...


Huh? No, that is not true. It is because it is a modular engine, can be a 3,4 or 6 cylinder, transverse or longitudinal. Has nothing to do with balance. And you do not have to remove the engine, or tranny, to replace the chain. Unlike Audi, BMW can actually design an engine. Ha ha!

Fun fact, the B48 and B58 are the last new gas engines BMW has designed. No more gas engines are being designed now. It will be these engines until we go full electric only.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/24/19 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw
Not necessarily. BMW was able to achieve perfect distribution with older engines. 335i with N55 engine had distribution 49/51% in F30 model.


I can build a car with 2000 pounds in front of the front axle and 2000 pounds behind the rear axle and get a "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution.

But would you track such a car? Or would you prefer that the weight be more concentrated toward the center of the vehicle?

BMW's obsession with "weight distribution" is little more than marketing. It's not really about 50/50 front/rear. More important is where the weight is located.

BMW engine sits behind front wheels. I know what you referring to, but not sure how you came to the conclusion that BMW engine does not sit behind wheels or that weight is not between axles.
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/24/19 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Deontologist
I can build a car with 2000 pounds in front of the front axle and 2000 pounds behind the rear axle and get a "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution.

But would you track such a car? Or would you prefer that the weight be more concentrated toward the center of the vehicle?

BMW's obsession with "weight distribution" is little more than marketing. It's not really about 50/50 front/rear. More important is where the weight is located.

BMW engine sits behind front wheels. I know what you referring to, but not sure how you came to the conclusion that BMW engine does not sit behind wheels or that weight is not between axles.


I came to that conclusion in my post? Nothing in my post says anything to that effect. I never said anything about where a BMW engine is located with regard to the axles or wheels. The point is that "50/50" can be achieved through many ways, some less optimal than others. In effect, claiming a "50/50" "weight distribution" is so vague as to be useless. A Toyota Camry with 5000 pound ballasts attached to the front and rear bumpers will have a roughly 50/50 weight distribution as do many BMWs straight out the factory. More relevant than "50/50" weight distribution are a) mass distribution, since weight "shifts" in turns and when accelerating/braking, and b) the polar moment of inertia. When accelerating and braking, no "50/50" BMW will have a "50/50" weight distribution, as the weight will be "transferred" to the rear and the front of the car, respectively.
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/24/19 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by mightymousetech
Huh? No, that is not true. It is because it is a modular engine, can be a 3,4 or 6 cylinder, transverse or longitudinal. Has nothing to do with balance. And you do not have to remove the engine, or tranny, to replace the chain. Unlike Audi, BMW can actually design an engine. Ha ha!


No, that is not true. The B47d--related to the B58 except 2 fewer cylinders and runs on diesel, not gasoline, requires the engine to be removed for the timing chain to be serviced. If a shorter block (2 fewer cylinders) requires engine out for timing chain service...I can't imagine doing the timing chain on a longer, 6-cylinder block with the engine in the car wink.

From the BMW factory service manual: step 1 is remove engine:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f22-218d-cou/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-31-camshaft/1VnYG9NVjL

The B58 similarly in the F31 340i similarly requires engine out according to the FSM:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f31-340i-tou/repair-manuals/11-engine/11-31-camshaft/1VnZ3N8lKL

Now, you were saying? Something about how BMW knows how to design an engine?
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Deontologist
I can build a car with 2000 pounds in front of the front axle and 2000 pounds behind the rear axle and get a "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution.

But would you track such a car? Or would you prefer that the weight be more concentrated toward the center of the vehicle?

BMW's obsession with "weight distribution" is little more than marketing. It's not really about 50/50 front/rear. More important is where the weight is located.

BMW engine sits behind front wheels. I know what you referring to, but not sure how you came to the conclusion that BMW engine does not sit behind wheels or that weight is not between axles.


I came to that conclusion in my post? Nothing in my post says anything to that effect. I never said anything about where a BMW engine is located with regard to the axles or wheels. The point is that "50/50" can be achieved through many ways, some less optimal than others. In effect, claiming a "50/50" "weight distribution" is so vague as to be useless. A Toyota Camry with 5000 pound ballasts attached to the front and rear bumpers will have a roughly 50/50 weight distribution as do many BMWs straight out the factory. More relevant than "50/50" weight distribution are a) mass distribution, since weight "shifts" in turns and when accelerating/braking, and b) the polar moment of inertia. When accelerating and braking, no "50/50" BMW will have a "50/50" weight distribution, as the weight will be "transferred" to the rear and the front of the car, respectively.

Precisely what you said, I got exactly that out of your post, same from this one. You are assuming that BMW is claiming that for marketing purposes but you are not offering any evidence to the contrary. So, how much weight will be transferred? Also, not all BMW's have 50/50? Some diesels are heavier in front, for obvious reasons, and than some 4cyl have actually 48/52% distribution.
This would not contribute in any meaningful way to the distribution. Especially since B generation has big focus on reliability. Mechanical pump is back, for a very good reason, and only because of reliability. OFH is completely changed. If they are going with goal to improve reliability and cost (OFH) than putting chain in the back just to gain a little bit in what is already well balanced car does not make absolutely any sense. I would say modularity, particularly transverse applications are to "blame."
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by edyvw
You are assuming that BMW is claiming that for marketing purposes but you are not offering any evidence to the contrary. So, how much weight will be transferred? Also, not all BMW's have 50/50? Some diesels are heavier in front, for obvious reasons, and than some 4cyl have actually 48/52% distribution.


Yes, I agree, not all BMWs have 50/50 weight distribution, that's why I said "many" BMWs have 50/50, not "all" in my post above.

Second, 50/50 is a marketing point. It's why you're repeating the phrase like a broken record player. BMW has brainwashed the masses about "50/50," which really is meaningless. And this ad solidifies the point of "50/50 weight distribution" being a marketing point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qobu0pJPHPQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajjgTNKz9m4

Third, how much weight will be "transferred?" That would obviously depend on how hard you're jamming the gas or brake pedal. If you have a high-enough power engine, and mash the gas, you can get the front wheels completely off the ground, even if the car is "50/50" at a stop. For the last time, what's more important than static weight distribution and "50/50" is mass distribution. You can make your car have "50/50 weight distribution" right now; just attach a 1 ton ballast to the front and rear bumpers of your car. Of course, that's a meaningless exercise. More relevant is the placement of the mass; hence the number of high-performance and supercars relying on mid-engine configurations more than anything else--getting the majority of the mass in the center of the car is ideal.

Originally Posted by edyvw
I would say modularity, particularly transverse applications are to "blame."


Why would a "modularity" force the timing chain to be on the rear in a longitudinal application? These two concepts are unreleated. BMW placed the timing components on the rear at the expense of added weight and mass for one simple reason: mass distribution. As a matter of fact, BMW had to sacrifice some weight savings to place the timing components on the rear of the engine. Additional sound insulation had to be added along the firewall to keep occupants from complaining about noise. In short, BMW prioritized mass distribution over weight savings. Their ads talk about "weight distribution," but the engineers are actually worried about mass distribution (and NVH). Moving the timing components to the front of the engine would have resulted in weight savings (less sound insulation needed) but would have resulted in a slightly worse mass distribution as now all the timing components (VANOS, chain, tensioners, pulleys) are toward the nose of the car.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw
You are assuming that BMW is claiming that for marketing purposes but you are not offering any evidence to the contrary. So, how much weight will be transferred? Also, not all BMW's have 50/50? Some diesels are heavier in front, for obvious reasons, and than some 4cyl have actually 48/52% distribution.


Yes, I agree, not all BMWs have 50/50 weight distribution, that's why I said "many" BMWs have 50/50, not "all" in my post above.

Second, 50/50 is a marketing point. It's why you're repeating the phrase like a broken record player. BMW has brainwashed the masses about "50/50," which really is meaningless. And this ad solidifies the point of "50/50 weight distribution" being a marketing point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qobu0pJPHPQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajjgTNKz9m4

Third, how much weight will be "transferred?" That would obviously depend on how hard you're jamming the gas or brake pedal. If you have a high-enough power engine, and mash the gas, you can get the front wheels completely off the ground, even if the car is "50/50" at a stop. For the last time, what's more important than static weight distribution and "50/50" is mass distribution. You can make your car have "50/50 weight distribution" right now; just attach a 1 ton ballast to the front and rear bumpers of your car. Of course, that's a meaningless exercise. More relevant is the placement of the mass; hence the number of high-performance and supercars relying on mid-engine configurations more than anything else--getting the majority of the mass in the center of the car is ideal.

Originally Posted by edyvw
I would say modularity, particularly transverse applications are to "blame."


Why would a "modularity" force the timing chain to be on the rear in a longitudinal application? These two concepts are unreleated. BMW placed the timing components on the rear at the expense of added weight and mass for one simple reason: mass distribution. As a matter of fact, BMW had to sacrifice some weight savings to place the timing components on the rear of the engine. Additional sound insulation had to be added along the firewall to keep occupants from complaining about noise. In short, BMW prioritized mass distribution over weight savings. Their ads talk about "weight distribution," but the engineers are actually worried about mass distribution (and NVH). Moving the timing components to the front of the engine would have resulted in weight savings (less sound insulation needed) but would have resulted in a slightly worse mass distribution as now all the timing components (VANOS, chain, tensioners, pulleys) are toward the nose of the car.

Have you actually driven back to back BMW and than Audi? Your arguments about marketing as main reason is simply laughable. You still do not offer any facts about how much weigh is transferred and same happens to cars with let's say 55/45%. I had recently opportunity to drave back to back 2014 Audi S4 that has that heavy front end and BMW 335i F30. While S4 is actually better vehicle IMO for day to day application, not just bcs of AWD, but other stuff, when cutting corners you always know that weight is in front as there is that understeer present. In BMW there is no such thing. You are throwig hypothetical and if you do not have anything concrete to say, maybe you should sit this out. Majority of the mass in BMW is between axles as I have already told you. BMW kicked out spare tire precisely bcs. of that reason. Is it going to be centered as mid-engine? No. But currently BMW is only luxury sports sedan with such weight distribution. This also includes bass speakers in floors etc. all to achieve that. I am again asking you, what is that weigh transfer?
As for other, modularity question, you and I have no idea exactly why BMW placed chain in the rear. You are hypothesizing. Do you have proof? No! I said "I would say" meaning I am guessing, but you are writing your post like you know facts, which you do not.
Do you have any PROOF BMW did that to achieve better weigh distribution? If not, it would help to not write your posts like you know something we do not, bcs. well, you do not.
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Deontologist
I can build a car with 2000 pounds in front of the front axle and 2000 pounds behind the rear axle and get a "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution.

But would you track such a car? Or would you prefer that the weight be more concentrated toward the center of the vehicle?

BMW's obsession with "weight distribution" is little more than marketing. It's not really about 50/50 front/rear. More important is where the weight is located.

BMW engine sits behind front wheels. I know what you referring to, but not sure how you came to the conclusion that BMW engine does not sit behind wheels or that weight is not between axles.


I came to that conclusion in my post? Nothing in my post says anything to that effect. I never said anything about where a BMW engine is located with regard to the axles or wheels. The point is that "50/50" can be achieved through many ways, some less optimal than others. In effect, claiming a "50/50" "weight distribution" is so vague as to be useless. A Toyota Camry with 5000 pound ballasts attached to the front and rear bumpers will have a roughly 50/50 weight distribution as do many BMWs straight out the factory. More relevant than "50/50" weight distribution are a) mass distribution, since weight "shifts" in turns and when accelerating/braking, and b) the polar moment of inertia. When accelerating and braking, no "50/50" BMW will have a "50/50" weight distribution, as the weight will be "transferred" to the rear and the front of the car, respectively.


Do you remember when Porsche experimented with front side ballast in order to introduce some balance to the 911 due to the extreme rearward bias? I'm guessing you've never heard of under/oversteer? In any case your point is moot because while you're correct that "50/50" can be achieved in many ways there are only a few industry accepted ways of which none* include ballast other than my Porsche example.

*Racing regs not withstanding.
Posted By: madRiver

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw
Not necessarily. BMW was able to achieve perfect distribution with older engines. 335i with N55 engine had distribution 49/51% in F30 model.


I can build a car with 2000 pounds in front of the front axle and 2000 pounds behind the rear axle and get a "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution.

But would you track such a car? Or would you prefer that the weight be more concentrated toward the center of the vehicle?

BMW's obsession with "weight distribution" is little more than marketing. It's not really about 50/50 front/rear. More important is where the weight is located.




Yes you can build a track car(one trick pony) however BMW builds a far more complex machine with way more variables including comfort, feel, performance for a price point. It laughable you consider your track building comparable to building a production vehicle.
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 08:38 PM

Everyone is missing the point. Weight distribution is a useless metric. If I can create a 50/50 car in my driveway right now with nothing but cinder blocks, and the selling feature of some cars is 50/50, then there's something inadequate about the concept of 50/50 weight distribution. We need a better yardstick by which we can compare cars--a yardstick that can't be gamed so easily.

Static weight distribution is a very simple concept though, and one that people love to latch on. The relevant concept is the moment of interia. Unfortunately, high school physics doesn't cover this concept, and so people like to talk endlessly instead about "weight distribution" rather than what's actually on a BMW or Audi or Porsche designer's mind, which would be the moment of inertia.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by andyd
School me please. What, pray tell, is the rationale behind a rear timing chain/belt? In the factory, the cabins are dropped onto the drive train The right way to take out an engine is on the sub-frame from underneath and then split off the engine or trans to service. KA- Ching!! and difficult to bodge behind the shop. The main reason I don't have a late model Ranger 4x4 is a rear cam drive 4.0L Take a good reliable little gas hog capable of 300K with little service and turn it into a grenade at 150K miles . A century of development going into push rod V engines. Then these OHC horror shows. What is the impetus to do this for Ford or BMW or any car maker? coffee


Chain on back of engine, or toward the center of the car, is for weight distribution. Keeping that extra weight off the front/nose of the car has handling advantages. Of course that means you have to pull the engine for timing chain service...


Chain on back of engine is to quiet torsional vibration input to the chain, thereby improving its life.
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
experimented with front side ballast in order to introduce some balance to the 911 due to the extreme rearward bias? I'm guessing you've never heard of under/oversteer? In any case your point is moot because while you're correct that "50/50" can be achieved in many ways there are only a few industry accepted ways of which none* include ballast other than my Porsche example.


So close but so far from the correct technical explanation of what Porsche was hoping to achieve. Over and understeering are directly related to the moment of inertia and mass distribution in the vehicle, not static weight distribution.
Posted By: A_Harman

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by PimTac
Interesting to say the least.

So what happens to the Supra now? These guys will slap the engine back together, reinstall and get it on the market at a discount? Sounds like a upcoming thread here on BITOG.



Candidate for an LS swap!
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by PimTac
Interesting to say the least.

So what happens to the Supra now? These guys will slap the engine back together, reinstall and get it on the market at a discount? Sounds like a upcoming thread here on BITOG.



Candidate for an LS swap!


Speaking of V8s, there's a popular video game called Car Mechanic Simulator. Interestingly, the character finds a V8 Supra at the junkyard to rebuild. He also found a V6 BMW M3 to work on. I don't think the video game editors were too much into cars.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Everyone is missing the point. Weight distribution is a useless metric. If I can create a 50/50 car in my driveway right now with nothing but cinder blocks, and the selling feature of some cars is 50/50, then there's something inadequate about the concept of 50/50 weight distribution. We need a better yardstick by which we can compare cars--a yardstick that can't be gamed so easily.

Static weight distribution is a very simple concept though, and one that people love to latch on. The relevant concept is the moment of interia. Unfortunately, high school physics doesn't cover this concept, and so people like to talk endlessly instead about "weight distribution" rather than what's actually on a BMW or Audi or Porsche designer's mind, which would be the moment of inertia.

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I highly doubt you ever seen where BMW engine is located. Yes, you can achieve 50:50% with other tricks. Audi due to Torsen has to push engine forward, and they are desperately trying to push engine back, so they were very proud that B9 engine is pushed 3mm back compared to B8.
They have battery below spare tire in some vehicles, heavy speakers at rear board etc. But fact is, and you point that correctly, engine is too far in front.
THAT IS NOT THE CASE IN BMW. Engine sits BEHIND front axle! You are trying to tell us that BMW's claim of 50:50% is gimmick, when it is not, bcs engien and transmission are pushed far back to achieve that weigh balance, where most weight is located between front and rear axle. The introduction of electronic shifter in automatic transmissions was done to allow better position of transmission. All that is done, yet here we are with claims that that is not true. Only thing I can figure out is that you have never peaked under the hood of BMW.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/25/19 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by madRiver
Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw
Not necessarily. BMW was able to achieve perfect distribution with older engines. 335i with N55 engine had distribution 49/51% in F30 model.


I can build a car with 2000 pounds in front of the front axle and 2000 pounds behind the rear axle and get a "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution.

But would you track such a car? Or would you prefer that the weight be more concentrated toward the center of the vehicle?

BMW's obsession with "weight distribution" is little more than marketing. It's not really about 50/50 front/rear. More important is where the weight is located.




Yes you can build a track car(one trick pony) however BMW builds a far more complex machine with way more variables including comfort, feel, performance for a price point. It laughable you consider your track building comparable to building a production vehicle.

He is talking about how he can build car with 2000lbs in front of front axle. I am not sure for the love of God where is he getting idea that BMW's engine sits in front of axle? Audi etc. yes, but BMW? BMW does not have spare tire bcs. precisely of that reason. Only thing obvious here is that BMW is seriously foreign concept to him.
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/26/19 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by edyvw
He is talking about how he can build car with 2000lbs in front of front axle. I am not sure for the love of God where is he getting idea that BMW's engine sits in front of axle? Audi etc. yes, but BMW? BMW does not have spare tire bcs. precisely of that reason. Only thing obvious here is that BMW is seriously foreign concept to him.


Again, you completely missed the point. I made an analogy between the claim of "perfect 50/50 weight distribution" and a hypothetical car with 5000 pounds located ahead of the front axle and 5000 behind the rear axle. Both have the "perfect" distribution, but one vehicle is decidedly imperfect.

An analogy is different than saying two things are exactly the same. I made an analogy. I did not say BMW puts an engine ahead of the front axle. Are we clear about analogies now?

Also, have you studied what moment of inertia is? There are many excellent articles about the moment of inertia and how it relates to Porsche cars online.
Posted By: mightymousetech

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/26/19 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw
He is talking about how he can build car with 2000lbs in front of front axle. I am not sure for the love of God where is he getting idea that BMW's engine sits in front of axle? Audi etc. yes, but BMW? BMW does not have spare tire bcs. precisely of that reason. Only thing obvious here is that BMW is seriously foreign concept to him.


Again, you completely missed the point. I made an analogy between the claim of "perfect 50/50 weight distribution" and a hypothetical car with 5000 pounds located ahead of the front axle and 5000 behind the rear axle. Both have the "perfect" distribution, but one vehicle is decidedly imperfect.

An analogy is different than saying two things are exactly the same. I made an analogy. I did not say BMW puts an engine ahead of the front axle. Are we clear about analogies now?

Also, have you studied what moment of inertia is? There are many excellent articles about the moment of inertia and how it relates to Porsche cars online.


Yes, BMW believes in both. 50:50 weight distribution AMD reducing MOI. That is why they extensively use aluminium at the ends of the vehicle, and in the front subframes and suspension components.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/26/19 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw
He is talking about how he can build car with 2000lbs in front of front axle. I am not sure for the love of God where is he getting idea that BMW's engine sits in front of axle? Audi etc. yes, but BMW? BMW does not have spare tire bcs. precisely of that reason. Only thing obvious here is that BMW is seriously foreign concept to him.


Again, you completely missed the point. I made an analogy between the claim of "perfect 50/50 weight distribution" and a hypothetical car with 5000 pounds located ahead of the front axle and 5000 behind the rear axle. Both have the "perfect" distribution, but one vehicle is decidedly imperfect.

An analogy is different than saying two things are exactly the same. I made an analogy. I did not say BMW puts an engine ahead of the front axle. Are we clear about analogies now?

Also, have you studied what moment of inertia is? There are many excellent articles about the moment of inertia and how it relates to Porsche cars online.

So, you made analogy. So what that has to do with BMW when BMW has perfect distribution and most of that weight is between axles? What is the point of that?
I know very well what is inertia, but where you getting that inertia when majority of weight in BMW is between axles? If we were talking about Audi, OK, we could say: yes, that bunch of steel, aluminum, plastic and rubber that is called engine sits in front of axle so it is creating understeer, but that is NOT the case with BMW. So, why we are talking about analogies when BMW has that perfect weight distribution, and there is nothing that hangs over axles? What is teh point? If BMW has "inertia" problems, where it is coming from? Tell us which part of BMW 340i F30 with B58 engine or G20 with B58 engine creates "inertia." Otherwise, what is the point of your argument? Or, if B58 engine with chain is in the back to address those (nonexistent) issues, tell us what creates that "inertia" in F30 335i or E90 335i with N55 engine? Enlighten us!
Posted By: E365

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/26/19 04:31 AM

50/50 isn’t “perfect” for a sports car. There’s a reason mid-engine sports cars are superior. Closer to 45/55 - 40/60 is better.
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/26/19 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by edyvw
What is teh point? If BMW has "inertia" problems, where it is coming from? Tell us which part of BMW 340i F30 with B58 engine or G20 with B58 engine creates "inertia." Otherwise, what is the point of your argument? Or, if B58 engine with chain is in the back to address those (nonexistent) issues, tell us what creates that "inertia" in F30 335i or E90 335i with N55 engine? Enlighten us!


Why are you so invested in defending the honor of BMW?

Can you please explain what's so "perfect" about 50/50 weight distribution? Many sports cars do just fine without the "perfect" 50/50 distribution; the 911 is an example.

Also, you don't know how car design works. There are no inertia "problems" with modern BMWs per se. It's all on a continuum; the optimization of the center of inertia isn't a right/wrong issue. There's a spectrum, on which one extreme would be a car that has 5000 pound ballasts on the bumpers, with the other extreme being a point mass. Car engineers today are interested in saving literal grams per component. There are few ways to drop 20 pounds here and 40 pounds there and 30 pounds here and 100 pounds there. There's a reason you pay a $20,000 premium for, say, a Lexus RC F, which drops about 18 pounds over the standard RC F, and uses a smaller A/C compressor to shave less than a pound of weight. Weight savings, and by extension, optimizing mass, mass distribution, and center of inertia (all related), are hard to come by. Moving the chain around doesn't seem like much to a layman, but even fractions of a pound and the location of the weight/mass are all worth fighting for.
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/26/19 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
experimented with front side ballast in order to introduce some balance to the 911 due to the extreme rearward bias? I'm guessing you've never heard of under/oversteer? In any case your point is moot because while you're correct that "50/50" can be achieved in many ways there are only a few industry accepted ways of which none* include ballast other than my Porsche example.


So close but so far from the correct technical explanation of what Porsche was hoping to achieve. Over and understeering are directly related to the moment of inertia and mass distribution in the vehicle, not static weight distribution.


Front grip also is a factor with regards to the degree of over/understeer. As for static weight distribution if its 40-60 the majority of the mass is going to be at the rear which coincidentally is going to be were most of the weight is as well.

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw
What is teh point? If BMW has "inertia" problems, where it is coming from? Tell us which part of BMW 340i F30 with B58 engine or G20 with B58 engine creates "inertia." Otherwise, what is the point of your argument? Or, if B58 engine with chain is in the back to address those (nonexistent) issues, tell us what creates that "inertia" in F30 335i or E90 335i with N55 engine? Enlighten us!


Why are you so invested in defending the honor of BMW?

Can you please explain what's so "perfect" about 50/50 weight distribution? Many sports cars do just fine without the "perfect" 50/50 distribution; the 911 is an example.

Also, you don't know how car design works. There are no inertia "problems" with modern BMWs per se. It's all on a continuum; the optimization of the center of inertia isn't a right/wrong issue. There's a spectrum, on which one extreme would be a car that has 5000 pound ballasts on the bumpers, with the other extreme being a point mass. Car engineers today are interested in saving literal grams per component. There are few ways to drop 20 pounds here and 40 pounds there and 30 pounds here and 100 pounds there. There's a reason you pay a $20,000 premium for, say, a Lexus RC F, which drops about 18 pounds over the standard RC F, and uses a smaller A/C compressor to shave less than a pound of weight. Weight savings, and by extension, optimizing mass, mass distribution, and center of inertia (all related), are hard to come by. Moving the chain around doesn't seem like much to a layman, but even fractions of a pound and the location of the weight/mass are all worth fighting for.


For the typical driver the closer to 50/50 the better especially when on a spirited drive because 50/50 provides a more neutral feel with regards to handling. The 911 is somewhat irrelevant to the discussion because at high speeds or on a very spirited drive the typical 911 requires a different driving technique because of all the mass over the rear axle.

I really can't figure out what point you're trying to make because you know that in the automotive world when people speaking about weight distribution they're talking about mass.

Perhaps you should write to the automotive press with a complaint that they have a ethical obligation to say "mass distribution" rather than "weight distribution"?

Oh and btw big reason why Lexus or anyone charges a huge premium for street compliant track-vehicles has very little to do with the actual cost of the weight saving components.
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/26/19 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by E365
50/50 isn’t “perfect” for a sports car. There’s a reason mid-engine sports cars are superior. Closer to 45/55 - 40/60 is better.


Think about it terms of a stock street car and the average driver rather than the professional/semi-professional who has hours upon hours on the track in a track-prep'd vehicle.
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/26/19 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I really can't figure out what point you're trying to make because you know that in the automotive world when people speaking about weight distribution they're talking about mass.

Perhaps you should write to the automotive press with a complaint that they have a ethical obligation to say "mass distribution" rather than "weight distribution"?


Some of the press is already informed with regard to the difference between weight and mass. There are plenty of great articles about Porsche and its mass distribution, center of mass, moment of inertia, etc. And no, people rarely are referring to mass distribution when they say "weight distribution."

Imagine that you're starting a professional basketball team. Your sole criteria for selecting players is that they have to be over 6'4". That's a good point to start with, but ultimately, it's insufficient as the sole criteria. There are plenty of great players under your "perfect" 6'4" height.

Same with the fetish regarding the "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution. 50/50 weight distribution is a okay starting point, but again, it's insufficient. The somewhat nose-heavy Camry can be made 50/50 with the simple addition of a few cinder blocks in the trunk. Does that make the Camry a great sports car though?

It would behoove us to choose some better criteria so we can have an informed discussion about cars instead of useless and random blathering. The better criteria is: mass distribution.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/26/19 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
I really can't figure out what point you're trying to make because you know that in the automotive world when people speaking about weight distribution they're talking about mass.

Perhaps you should write to the automotive press with a complaint that they have a ethical obligation to say "mass distribution" rather than "weight distribution"?


Some of the press is already informed with regard to the difference between weight and mass. There are plenty of great articles about Porsche and its mass distribution, center of mass, moment of inertia, etc. And no, people rarely are referring to mass distribution when they say "weight distribution."

Imagine that you're starting a professional basketball team. Your sole criteria for selecting players is that they have to be over 6'4". That's a good point to start with, but ultimately, it's insufficient as the sole criteria. There are plenty of great players under your "perfect" 6'4" height.

Same with the fetish regarding the "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution. 50/50 weight distribution is a okay starting point, but again, it's insufficient. The somewhat nose-heavy Camry can be made 50/50 with the simple addition of a few cinder blocks in the trunk. Does that make the Camry a great sports car though?

It would behoove us to choose some better criteria so we can have an informed discussion about cars instead of useless and random blathering. The better criteria is: mass distribution.

You tied yourself so much into knot. It is time you actually realize that you have no idea what you talking about.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 08/26/19 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw
What is teh point? If BMW has "inertia" problems, where it is coming from? Tell us which part of BMW 340i F30 with B58 engine or G20 with B58 engine creates "inertia." Otherwise, what is the point of your argument? Or, if B58 engine with chain is in the back to address those (nonexistent) issues, tell us what creates that "inertia" in F30 335i or E90 335i with N55 engine? Enlighten us!


Why are you so invested in defending the honor of BMW?

Can you please explain what's so "perfect" about 50/50 weight distribution? Many sports cars do just fine without the "perfect" 50/50 distribution; the 911 is an example.

Also, you don't know how car design works. There are no inertia "problems" with modern BMWs per se. It's all on a continuum; the optimization of the center of inertia isn't a right/wrong issue. There's a spectrum, on which one extreme would be a car that has 5000 pound ballasts on the bumpers, with the other extreme being a point mass. Car engineers today are interested in saving literal grams per component. There are few ways to drop 20 pounds here and 40 pounds there and 30 pounds here and 100 pounds there. There's a reason you pay a $20,000 premium for, say, a Lexus RC F, which drops about 18 pounds over the standard RC F, and uses a smaller A/C compressor to shave less than a pound of weight. Weight savings, and by extension, optimizing mass, mass distribution, and center of inertia (all related), are hard to come by. Moving the chain around doesn't seem like much to a layman, but even fractions of a pound and the location of the weight/mass are all worth fighting for.

Again, read my previous posts. You have no idea what you talking about.
Lexus RC is really not good example because for class where it plays it is too heavy. Again, tell us what ballast on bumpers have to do with BMW? This is topic about BMW B58 engine not Lexus or microwaves like Camry. Tell us where is that mass located in BMW G20 or F30 or E90? Ony thing clear here is that you tied yourself into knot and trying to get out of discussion as providing some argument.
I asked you about BMW and you talking about some appliance FWD cars or attempts of sport cars like RC F. Only clear here is that you have no idea about BMW. But, if I need some ballasts when doing some work on a house, I know who to ask.
Posted By: Deontologist

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/04/19 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by edyvw

Lexus RC is really not good example because for class where it plays it is too heavy. Again, tell us what ballast on bumpers have to do with BMW? This is topic about BMW B58 engine not Lexus or microwaves like Camry. Tell us where is that mass located in BMW G20 or F30 or E90? Ony thing clear here is that you tied yourself into knot and trying to get out of discussion as providing some argument.
I asked you about BMW and you talking about some appliance FWD cars or attempts of sport cars like RC F. Only clear here is that you have no idea about BMW. But, if I need some ballasts when doing some work on a house, I know who to ask.


I'm in the automotive industry. Whole-vehicle evaluations are not pertinent to this discussion regarding mass distribution and moment of inertia. Whether a M3 or RC F or 911 are good, bad, or average sports cars is irrelevant to why the timing chain is on the rear of a B58 engine. Comments like yours show that your understanding of vehicle engineering doesn't go far beyond what anyone can read in Car&Driver.

And you make my point for me. Even with such a "heavy" car as the RC F, weight savings are hard to come by. And in a more weight-optimized car, like a BMW with a B58 engine, weight savings are even harder to come by. What you can do is to optimize the mass distribution of the vehicle, given that weight reductions (mass reductions) are not going to be very easy to come by.

The next step will be further electrification of the drivetrain. The new Mercedes inline 6 is a very good from a high-level engineering perspective. It eliminates the accessory belt system that's commonly found on the front of engines. That right there gives you weight and mass savings, while optimizing the moment of inertia by removing mass from the front of the vehicle. I expect BMW to lose the accessory belt system in a few years as well.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/04/19 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
Originally Posted by edyvw

Lexus RC is really not good example because for class where it plays it is too heavy. Again, tell us what ballast on bumpers have to do with BMW? This is topic about BMW B58 engine not Lexus or microwaves like Camry. Tell us where is that mass located in BMW G20 or F30 or E90? Ony thing clear here is that you tied yourself into knot and trying to get out of discussion as providing some argument.
I asked you about BMW and you talking about some appliance FWD cars or attempts of sport cars like RC F. Only clear here is that you have no idea about BMW. But, if I need some ballasts when doing some work on a house, I know who to ask.


I'm in the automotive industry. Whole-vehicle evaluations are not pertinent to this discussion regarding mass distribution and moment of inertia. Whether a M3 or RC F or 911 are good, bad, or average sports cars is irrelevant to why the timing chain is on the rear of a B58 engine. Comments like yours show that your understanding of vehicle engineering doesn't go far beyond what anyone can read in Car&Driver.

And you make my point for me. Even with such a "heavy" car as the RC F, weight savings are hard to come by. And in a more weight-optimized car, like a BMW with a B58 engine, weight savings are even harder to come by. What you can do is to optimize the mass distribution of the vehicle, given that weight reductions (mass reductions) are not going to be very easy to come by.

The next step will be further electrification of the drivetrain. The new Mercedes inline 6 is a very good from a high-level engineering perspective. It eliminates the accessory belt system that's commonly found on the front of engines. That right there gives you weight and mass savings, while optimizing the moment of inertia by removing mass from the front of the vehicle. I expect BMW to lose the accessory belt system in a few years as well.

I was in car industry too, so please, do not give me that BS.
I asked you about "ballast," where is it in G20, F30 or E90, and you gave me Toyota Camry as an example. Last time I checked, Camry is not BMW 3 series.
Lexus RC-f is heavy due to platform, it has engine pushed forward compared to BMW. Engine mostly sits bit ahead of front axle, and it is V8, which is NOT comparable to BMW.
Like I said, you tied yourself into knot and you do not know your way out.
Posted By: Pew

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/05/19 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Deontologist
[quote=edyvw]
The next step will be further electrification of the drivetrain. The new Mercedes inline 6 is a very good from a high-level engineering perspective. It eliminates the accessory belt system that's commonly found on the front of engines. That right there gives you weight and mass savings, while optimizing the moment of inertia by removing mass from the front of the vehicle. I expect BMW to lose the accessory belt system in a few years as well.


Yea, and now we need turkey basters to change the oil instead of just letting good ole natural gravity do it's work.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/06/19 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by Deontologist
[quote=edyvw]
The next step will be further electrification of the drivetrain. The new Mercedes inline 6 is a very good from a high-level engineering perspective. It eliminates the accessory belt system that's commonly found on the front of engines. That right there gives you weight and mass savings, while optimizing the moment of inertia by removing mass from the front of the vehicle. I expect BMW to lose the accessory belt system in a few years as well.


Yea, and now we need turkey basters to change the oil instead of just letting good ole natural gravity do it's work.

I did not even see this gem. So MB optimized inertia by removing mass from front, yet engine still sits more forward than in BMW or Alfa Romeo.
One cannot make this up.
Posted By: SLO_Town

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/07/19 04:07 AM

I say this as a BMW enthusiast. I am not impressed with that over engineered B58 motor. It was designed by a bunch of engineers who never so much as changed their own spark plugs. I love my BMWs but I will not buy the brand again.

Next up, oil pan removals for oil changes because the drain plug compromises pan stiffness. A 3.0L inline six with 335 horsepower. Big deal. With all that "engineering" I would have expected 500+.

Watching this makes a Tesla seem appealing to me!

Scott
Posted By: rooflessVW

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/07/19 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by SLO_Town
I say this as a BMW enthusiast. I am not impressed with that over engineered B58 motor. It was designed by a bunch of engineers who never so much as changed their own spark plugs. I love my BMWs but I will not buy the brand again.

Next up, oil pan removals for oil changes because the drain plug compromises pan stiffness. A 3.0L inline six with 335 horsepower. Big deal. With all that "engineering" I would have expected 500+.

Watching this makes a Tesla seem appealing to me!

Scott

Interesting that that was your takeaway, Scott.

I saw a lot of smart packaging and intelligent design, moreso than BMW has shown since the turn of the century.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/07/19 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by SLO_Town
I say this as a BMW enthusiast. I am not impressed with that over engineered B58 motor. It was designed by a bunch of engineers who never so much as changed their own spark plugs. I love my BMWs but I will not buy the brand again.

Next up, oil pan removals for oil changes because the drain plug compromises pan stiffness. A 3.0L inline six with 335 horsepower. Big deal. With all that "engineering" I would have expected 500+.

Watching this makes a Tesla seem appealing to me!

Scott

IDk, but I noticed that they addressed some previous issue. OFH is different, obviously trying to FINALLY address that issue. Water pump is mechanical not electric.
Now, I would not be surprised if they return oil dipstick as they did in N63TU since new 5 series is introduced.
Also, I think it was Car and Driver that just did test on G20 B48 330i with M package, and they scored 42mpg average on 200 mile test. Better then Honda Civic, and I think 1mpg shy of Camry hybrid.
Posted By: Pew

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/08/19 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by edyvw

Also, I think it was Car and Driver that just did test on G20 B48 330i with M package, and they scored 42mpg average on 200 mile test. Better then Honda Civic, and I think 1mpg shy of Camry hybrid.


I saw that article and I think that's freaking crazy. If that's straight highway miles, that's as good as my 3cyl focus gets.
Posted By: MCompact

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/08/19 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Pew

I saw that article and I think that's freaking crazy. If that's straight highway miles, that's as good as my 3cyl focus gets.


Yes, 42 mpg at a 75 mph cruise. The 330i is not super-quick, but a 14.0 second quarter is impressive considering the fuel economy.
Posted By: edyvw

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/08/19 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by Pew

I saw that article and I think that's freaking crazy. If that's straight highway miles, that's as good as my 3cyl focus gets.


Yes, 42 mpg at a 75 mph cruise. The 330i is not super-quick, but a 14.0 second quarter is impressive considering the fuel economy.

330i is not super-quick compared to 340i. But when you comapre to other cars, yeah it is quick. Especially when you compare to other cars that get similar mpg.
Posted By: Pew

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/09/19 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by Pew

I saw that article and I think that's freaking crazy. If that's straight highway miles, that's as good as my 3cyl focus gets.


Yes, 42 mpg at a 75 mph cruise. The 330i is not super-quick, but a 14.0 second quarter is impressive considering the fuel economy.

330i is not super-quick compared to 340i. But when you comapre to other cars, yeah it is quick. Especially when you compare to other cars that get similar mpg.


Yea, same MPGs as me but twice the HP/TQ and 5 seconds faster than mine in a 1/4mi.
Posted By: MetalSlug

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/09/19 03:22 AM

its still Toyota , stop calling the new supra a bmw spank
Posted By: rooflessVW

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/09/19 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by MetalSlug
its still Toyota , stop calling the new supra a bmw spank

Toyota couldn't be bothered to design their own sports car, and I can't be bothered to pretend they did.
Posted By: Skippy722

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/09/19 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by MetalSlug
its still Toyota , stop calling the new supra a bmw spank

Toyota couldn't be bothered to design their own sports car, and I can't be bothered to pretend they did.


And the only other sports car is a Subaru.
Posted By: BMWTurboDzl

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/09/19 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by SLO_Town
I say this as a BMW enthusiast. I am not impressed with that over engineered B58 motor. It was designed by a bunch of engineers who never so much as changed their own spark plugs. I love my BMWs but I will not buy the brand again.

Next up, oil pan removals for oil changes because the drain plug compromises pan stiffness. A 3.0L inline six with 335 horsepower. Big deal. With all that "engineering" I would have expected 500+.

Watching this makes a Tesla seem appealing to me!

Scott


The BMW version makes almost 400 hp. IJS. The Supra B58 is purposely de-tuned.
Posted By: RayCJ

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 09/10/19 08:54 PM


Here's part II of this 1000 HP engine build. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0K2aoEwgV8
Posted By: E365

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 10/08/19 07:00 AM

The rebuild.

Posted By: RayCJ

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 10/08/19 10:52 AM


It's nice to see such a clean & organized shop -and the quality of instruction and narration is a breath of fresh air. I do wonder though, how does he generate enough income to maintain a place like that? Apparently, he has acclaim building drift cars... but still, I'm scratching my head wondering how he keeps a shop like that financially afloat?

Whatever... I hope he continues making videos!

Ray
Posted By: bdcardinal

Re: BMW (Toyota Supra) B58 Engine Teardown Video - 10/08/19 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by RayCJ

It's nice to see such a clean & organized shop -and the quality of instruction and narration is a breath of fresh air. I do wonder though, how does he generate enough income to maintain a place like that? Apparently, he has acclaim building drift cars... but still, I'm scratching my head wondering how he keeps a shop like that financially afloat?

Whatever... I hope he continues making videos!

Ray


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