- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,799
Is the Baldwin B-164 a good bypass filter?
- Thread starter Griz95
- Start date
- Status
An engine will last a lot longer with clean conventional oil than dirty synthetic oil. I gave up the rediculious system of allowing the oil to get dirty then changing it over 40 years ago. A filter has little value to me unless it can remove particles as small as cigarette smoke. Cigarette smoke is about 1/10th of one micron. Some diesel soot is even smaller than that. I have been known to drain the oil but I don't make a habit of it.
I would rather change a dirty filter than drain dirty OIL and change a clean filter.
I would rather change a dirty filter than drain dirty OIL and change a clean filter.
Ordered a case of B50's and OB1305, with shipping $89.80. B50's work out to about $5.25 each...
I know there has been some talk about the filtering of B50 vs 'D' all of the above...has anyone done a before and after (on the B50 setup) yet? I am still months away from installing filter set up but would be willing to share oil analysis if anyone interested?
I know there has been some talk about the filtering of B50 vs 'D' all of the above...has anyone done a before and after (on the B50 setup) yet? I am still months away from installing filter set up but would be willing to share oil analysis if anyone interested?
unDummy
Would you recommend the .040 flow restrictor for the 7.3L Power Stroke also?
Quote:
Would you recommend the .040 flow restrictor for the 7.3L Power Stroke also?
I'm running a 1/16" orifice on my Cummins...your 7.3's oil pump should be very close to the CTD's in volume...you should be fine with 1/16"...just watch your oil pressure, I doubt it will change. For a car, I'd might be concerned, but for a light truck diesel, I wouldn't be concerned.
steved
Slower flow is better. My 1/16 restrictor flows about 2 qt/min on a Cummins 5.9 with no effect on oil pressure whatsoever. But I'm dropping it lower anyway next time I need a little half hour project to keep me busy and can't find anything better to do.
Where do you buy a fitting with a .040 flow restrictor built into it? Is this to insure correct engine oil pressure or maximum by-pass filter efficiency or both? I assume it doesn't matter if you install this fitting at the input to the by-pass filter or output of the engine...correct?
On the output side of the bypass filter kit, the restrictor builds engine oil pressure in the bypass media. On the input side of the bypass filter, the only pressure is from the media restricting the flow. To me, it just sounds safer to restrict on the input side. In the real world, I don't think it makes a difference.
I've always disagree'd with the one orifice size for all kits. Size it for your engine, its flow, and typical PSI.
If flow exceeds the filters capacity, you risk either damaging it or have too much 'junk' pass right through the media.
So, the restrictor is there to protect your engine by preventing excessive PSI lost to the bypass, to protect your engine by preventing excessive oil flow lost to the bypass, to protect the bypass media, and to improve the efficiency of that bypass media. Helluva job for a simple plug with a hole drilled into it.
I would think that the baldwin filter, with its built in restrictor, is perfectly acceptable for most larger engines. You'd have to research the OEM applications for the filter, and compare your engine to the flow and typical pressure of those OEM applications. If the engine has typical higher pressures, then using a smaller .040-.060 orifice might be better for peace of mind.
There is no formula for determing restrictor size. But, I would think that a 1/16 orifice on a 1.5L engine would lead to issues. And, that a 1/50 orifice on a 7L diesel would not flow enough to filter any oil. I would lean toward smaller on most engines. A simple idea would be to match the metric engine size to the restrictor standard size. But, media type and oil weight also need to be considered. Thick oil doesn't flow too well and might need to be upsized for improved flow through the media. Thin oil might prefer a smaller orifice for improved filtration efficiency.
You can check with bypass manufacturers for orifices. But, drill bits and pipe plugs, tapping for carb jets,... would allow you to make/use any size you want.
I haven't seen the specs of the Baldwin B164, when compared to Fram, Wix, Purolator, Donaldson.... Any improvement in filtration is great. Anyway to increase the sump capacity is great.
But to me, those canister bypass filters are simply flow restricted full flows. Take a full flow, remove its bypass valve, and reduce the oil flow so that less contaminates gets by the media, and thats all you get! It helps, but it aint a dense bypass like paper towels, TP, or string wound medias. For example, if you restrict the flow to a cheapo ST8a or PH8a filter enough, it'll grab a lot and sound good too! But is it what you want? Just something to think about.
BTW, if you're using the B164 on smaller engines, lets say less then 4.0, fabricate a .032 orifice(Amsoil size). If you're using it on anything bigger, I would restrict it more then the .0625 that it comes with.
.040(oilguard/racor size) or .050 should be considered. I think that puradyn came standard with 1/32(.0313) and smaller orifices.
Only the real big filters and real big sumps get .0625-.1 sized orifices.
I've always disagree'd with the one orifice size for all kits. Size it for your engine, its flow, and typical PSI.
If flow exceeds the filters capacity, you risk either damaging it or have too much 'junk' pass right through the media.
So, the restrictor is there to protect your engine by preventing excessive PSI lost to the bypass, to protect your engine by preventing excessive oil flow lost to the bypass, to protect the bypass media, and to improve the efficiency of that bypass media. Helluva job for a simple plug with a hole drilled into it.
I would think that the baldwin filter, with its built in restrictor, is perfectly acceptable for most larger engines. You'd have to research the OEM applications for the filter, and compare your engine to the flow and typical pressure of those OEM applications. If the engine has typical higher pressures, then using a smaller .040-.060 orifice might be better for peace of mind.
There is no formula for determing restrictor size. But, I would think that a 1/16 orifice on a 1.5L engine would lead to issues. And, that a 1/50 orifice on a 7L diesel would not flow enough to filter any oil. I would lean toward smaller on most engines. A simple idea would be to match the metric engine size to the restrictor standard size. But, media type and oil weight also need to be considered. Thick oil doesn't flow too well and might need to be upsized for improved flow through the media. Thin oil might prefer a smaller orifice for improved filtration efficiency.
You can check with bypass manufacturers for orifices. But, drill bits and pipe plugs, tapping for carb jets,... would allow you to make/use any size you want.
I haven't seen the specs of the Baldwin B164, when compared to Fram, Wix, Purolator, Donaldson.... Any improvement in filtration is great. Anyway to increase the sump capacity is great.
But to me, those canister bypass filters are simply flow restricted full flows. Take a full flow, remove its bypass valve, and reduce the oil flow so that less contaminates gets by the media, and thats all you get! It helps, but it aint a dense bypass like paper towels, TP, or string wound medias. For example, if you restrict the flow to a cheapo ST8a or PH8a filter enough, it'll grab a lot and sound good too! But is it what you want? Just something to think about.
BTW, if you're using the B164 on smaller engines, lets say less then 4.0, fabricate a .032 orifice(Amsoil size). If you're using it on anything bigger, I would restrict it more then the .0625 that it comes with.
.040(oilguard/racor size) or .050 should be considered. I think that puradyn came standard with 1/32(.0313) and smaller orifices.
Only the real big filters and real big sumps get .0625-.1 sized orifices.
Houston we got problems...I just got my UOA report back from Blackstone and the lead is a lot higher than it should be for PSD. I think I'll go back and remove the by-pass for now to see if lead improves in the next UOA report. I am suspecting the distance I am running to the by-pass and the orfice size might be causing a problem.
Thanks for everyones advise and helpful info.
Griz95
Griz95
Okay you are running a Cummins and I am running a PSD...not sure what difference that would make. My hose length is about 5 1/2 ft. each way form the engine to the by-pass filter. I have not tested the flow rate...how did you do it? I would probably disconnect the return line from the by-pass filter and measure that...is that how you did it? What would be a good flow rate for a PSD at idle? (I am sure not going to climb under there going down the road)
I don't have a good oil pressure gage to monitor the oil pressure with...yet. But my idiot dash gage does reads in the lower half of Normal if that means anything. Do you feel I am over reacting by removing the by-pass? Or is the 5W-40 weight oil to light for this engine?
I have the return heading into the oil filler cap, so it is very easy to see the retun and check it...
I definately would check the flow...I doubt the volume of oil being pumped through your PSD is much different than what's going throught my CTD...my guess is your bypass isn't your issue...
steved
I definately would check the flow...I doubt the volume of oil being pumped through your PSD is much different than what's going throught my CTD...my guess is your bypass isn't your issue...
steved
Griz, post the UOA details in the diesel UOA section for comments, since other issues like fueling, oil brand/type/weight chosen, air filtration, state of tune... could also be an issue!
More detail on how yours is plumbed? pickup and return are where?
I would plumb in a .040 orifice in one of the lines, keep the filter, and call it a day.
More detail on how yours is plumbed? pickup and return are where?
I would plumb in a .040 orifice in one of the lines, keep the filter, and call it a day.
griz you can easily pull the hose off the return line where you have it going into the block (assuming that you hooked it up like most PSD, feed plumbing into oil cooler housing and return going into plug on the side of the block) and with a friend start it up and run for a minute or two and see what your flow rate it. just run it into a gallon jug or something and measure your output.
The way to tell if a bypass filter is any good is not with oil analysis. You cut open the filter and look at the media. If it is pleated paper it won't clean oil. It will help to add a very small orifice but it will still not clean oil. It will beat the full flow filter because of the lower flow rate but it still won't clean oil. My 41 Dodge had a Fram bypass filter with a decal on the side that said "the dipstick tells the story". It was a cotton element. You could still get the cotton elements up into the 60s. If you took your car to a service station to get the oil and filter changed it is likely you would get the junk pleated paper element. My 82 Mazda diesel pickup had a factory installed bypass filter that had a junk pleated paper filter with about a 1/32" orifice in the outlet of the filter mount. It had a 5/16" fitting welded into the oil pan for a return. It was a good system except it didn't clean oil. I left the Frantz on it when I sold it. I still have the factory bypass filter mount. It was such a dirty running engine that I had to change the filter so often that I had to forget about using synthetic oil. My 81 Datsun is a cleaner running engine but doesn't get the fuel economy. It's a nice little diesel engine. I used a sandwich adapter to mount the Motor Guard. The sandwich adapter is similar to adding a smaller orifice. It reduces the flow of oil thru the element. If the filter gets hot I am happy.
tjbeggs...I hooked up my by-bass filter kit just as you described. The output from the engine to the filter is off the F/F oil filter header and the input is to the right of that into the block. Will any oil come out of the block with the hose disconnected during the test run? And what is the normal flow rate for the PSD with a 1/16 orifice and 1/4" diameter hose?
unDummy...I'll post the results of the UOA as soon as I figure out how
(I haven't quite figured out everything about this forum yet). I am looking into plumbing in a .040 orifice. I just need to find one first. My plan is to plumb it in on the input side to the by-pass filter at the F/F oil filter header. The way I installed the by-pass is pretty standard for a PSD. I hooked up the input on the oil filter header port and the output from the by-pass filter hooks up to a port on the block just to the right of the F/F oil filter header.
- Status
