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Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? #5330706 01/23/20 09:07 PM
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Vern_in_IL Offline OP
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It seems to me that ADB systems are too complex. The U.S. Market is pushing them, but so far Government regulations will not allow it.

It only uses 12 LED's, and gives you better light than a fixed high/low optic system. I just don't get the advantage of a spinning mirror and just 12 led's is going to "rock the world"

IMO HID is near perfection, LED a little better, but much more complex, and more costly.

Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5330708 01/23/20 09:12 PM
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It's really not hard to produce glare-free headlights that provide a nice beam pattern, with good color temperature. It's simply too bad that most manufacturers don't do this.

Instead, they rely on ever more expensive technology to accomplish the goal.

I installed some Rigid LED fog lights in my F150. They are wonderful and don't bother a soul, as they are aimed low n wide. Very nice! I'd much rather install aftermarket stuff than rely on the OEM's to get it right.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5330735 01/23/20 09:53 PM
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I've got Bixenons on both cars. They were an option, not standard. I think the LEDs are actually cheaper which is why Mercedes went with LEDs as a standard where the HID's were an option before the LEDs. From what I read, the LEDs are actually cheaper than the HIDs and not quite as bright as HID but the cheaper part kicks in. My HIDs had active cornering illumination, headlamp washers and they also auto level so it had a bit more than just HID bulbs.

Mercedes actually has those lights in Europe but because they're not allowed in the US, so they're not on US cars. People keep asking how to enable it, but it wasn't even installed so nothing to enable.

Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5330756 01/23/20 11:38 PM
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I’d love to drive a car with them. There’s an excellent video of it somewhere on YouTube showing how they perform... essentially like always having your high beams on, but no glare to oncoming traffic.

Yeah... they’re expensive. But I don’t buy vehicles for the absolute lowest cost of ownership. I’m sure someone will chime in with “Muh halogens work just fine!” and yes, I agree, mine also work “just fine.” But why not improve? My biggest gripe with bi-xenon or bi-halogen projectors is the sharp cut off. ADB bridges the gap between unleashing the sun, and a razor sharp cut off between light and dark.


2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5330759 01/24/20 12:01 AM
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Dave_Mark Offline
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Originally Posted by Vern_in_IL
I just don't get the advantage of a spinning mirror and just 12 led's is going to "rock the world"

IMO HID is near perfection, LED a little better, but much more complex, and more costly.


Even Stevie Wonder can see why adaptive driving beam is being actively developed and pushed by every major player in the industry. Simply stated: headlamps are far from "sufficient" at this point in time. They might appear to be sufficient...but opinions are like stomachs. Everyone's got one.

There's a reason the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has recently jumped into rating headlamps, which has cost them tens of millions of dollars. They tested 82 different vehicles in the first round of testing back in '16, and assuming a very conservative average transaction price of $25,000 per vehicle they bought, that would be over $2 million dollars spent in just vehicles alone. There were a lot of luxury vehicles in the mix from BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc., in that first round of testing, so it's easy that they spent closer to 3 million in just vehicles alone. They also bought 47 different small SUVs and 23 different trucks that same year for more testing, and assuming an average transaction price of $35,000 for the small SUVs and trucks...that's another $2.5 million dollars in vehicle purchases alone. So they spent probably close to $5 million dollars in just acquiring vehicles for the first year of testing in 2016. Even if they sold them all for 80% of the purchase price, that's a big loss, and it's unclear what they do with the vehicles afterward.

The IIHS is not a government entity and has no obligation to provide citizens with any sort of rating. They only do it because they see significant sums of $$$ in pushing for better headlamps and by extension, reduced crash probability and reduced claim frequency. The IIHS isn't rating cars and spanking manufacturers out of the goodness of their heart. They're doing it because they see greater than tens of millions of dollars of benefit/investment return from better headlamp systems. ADB falls under the umbrella of "better headlamp systems." Even without ADB, there is plenty of room for improvement, as the IIHS knows.

HID is overly complex, expensive, and dead in the water. From now on there's going to be two major technologies for forward lighting: halogen and LED. In the medium-term to long-term future: "laser," or more precisely, phosphor-converted lasers.

Last edited by Dave_Mark; 01/24/20 12:09 AM.
Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5330777 01/24/20 02:39 AM
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https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/toyota/camry-4-door-sedan/2020#headlightshttps

Look at this 3/4 way down under headlights. I have the same car in 18. SXE. When we got this thing coming from Halogen we were blown away. Fantastic in all respects yet these guys find them just OK? I don’t know what they must expect excellent is. Someone on the forum said they are pushing for the cornering which some cars are getting now.
Personally it’s nothing I need or want being just more complicated stuff to break. One older guy did say he didn’t think the same cars LEDs were enough for his night desert driving. It makes me wonder if it’s just his eyes or how fast he expects to drive at night.????? One thing we all agree on though, Halogens just plain 🚽SUCK!
One feature I like with mine are the automatic headlights AND the switch to turn them off. They work off the camera spectacular fashion, very hard to fool.

Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Driz] #5330785 01/24/20 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Driz
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/toyota/camry-4-door-sedan/2020#headlightshttps

Look at this 3/4 way down under headlights. I have the same car in 18. SXE. When we got this thing coming from Halogen we were blown away. Fantastic in all respects yet these guys find them just OK? I don’t know what they must expect excellent is. Someone on the forum said they are pushing for the cornering which some cars are getting now.
Personally it’s nothing I need or want being just more complicated stuff to break. One older guy did say he didn’t think the same cars LEDs were enough for his night desert driving. It makes me wonder if it’s just his eyes or how fast he expects to drive at night.????? One thing we all agree on though, Halogens just plain 🚽SUCK!
One feature I like with mine are the automatic headlights AND the switch to turn them off. They work off the camera spectacular fashion, very hard to fool.


IIHS tests them “as is” from the factory, meaning they do not adjust aim at all. In that IIHS headlight test of the Camry, they’re likely using the same exact headlight across all trim levels, but the aim isn’t the same on all.


2016 Chrysler 300S v6
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Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Skippy722] #5330842 01/24/20 07:11 AM
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Imp4 Offline
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Originally Posted by Skippy722
In that IIHS headlight test of the Camry, they’re likely using the same exact headlight across all trim levels, but the aim isn’t the same on all.

Not true.

If you read the IIHS evaluation, you'll see that they rate the trim levels independently, based on the lighting technology. So there are actually 3 headlight ratings for the 2020 Camry.


2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.4 - 165k+
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Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5330849 01/24/20 07:23 AM
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If this is the newer version that switches LEDs off and on instead of the high/low beam option then I like the idea. It gives the driver more visibility ahead while not blinding oncoming or following traffic. They accomplish this by switching off specific LEDs in the array.

I can envision when headlights will have different modes like fog mode, rain mode, etc.


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Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5330923 01/24/20 09:04 AM
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Sounds very complicated and expensive for the privilege of driving a little faster at night.

Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5330977 01/24/20 10:25 AM
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Can't come soon enough for me. I am tired of being blinded by frankenstein LED+Halogen headlights and by OEM LED headlights that lack dynamic vertical aim.

Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5330980 01/24/20 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Vern_in_IL

...It only uses 12 LED's, and gives you better light than a fixed high/low optic system. I just don't get the advantage of a spinning mirror and just 12 led's is going to "rock the world"


There are many different designs for ADB headlights.

Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5331006 01/24/20 11:08 AM
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Here is the latest ADB headlight design (called PictuureBeam) from OEM supplier Valeo:

https://www.drivingvisionnews.com/dvn-test-drive-valeos-picturebeam-4000-pixels-adb/


Quote
...The PicureBeam system provides a high-resolution (around 4,000 pixels) ADB with light all around the detected vehicles. It brings the function one step closer to being a real glare-free high beam, with a high accuracy in the cutoff position...

...The technology is based on a monolithic LED, developped and produced by CREE, with 3,696 pixels to produce a high definition beam on the whole field. ..

...The module is composed of 4 major components corresponding to the main functions to be addressed:
– Monolithic light source to emit light
– Projection optics to project the light emitted by the source
– Cooling system to evacuate the energy emitted by the source
– Electronic board to drive and power the LED allowing driving each pixel individually....

Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Kestas] #5331039 01/24/20 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kestas
Sounds very complicated and expensive for the privilege of driving a little faster at night.


Wrong. The benefit of ADB isn't allowing one to drive "a little faster at night." It's allowing one to actually drive at normal speeds at night with significantly reduced risk.

As the IIHS found, most headlamp systems are inadequate for driving more than 40 MPH in the dark.

Now, there will probably be a million and one posters chiming in saying they've driven at 70 MPH at night for the last 500 years, but that's about as valid as saying cigarettes don't cause cancer; my dad smoked them and lived to 90.

The simple math of the matter is that current low beam systems don't shine far enough to allow one to come to a stop for obstacles at speeds significantly greater than 40 MPH. ADB can help change this, when implemented well.

A lot of us have been "getting away" with this uncomfortable truth, but it's no different from people "getting away" scot free from driving home after the bar after a few drinks. Yes, you got home safely. But also, yes, your risk of something bad happening was elevated during that period in which you drove home buzzed/drunk.

Whether this benefit outweighs the cost of the system is something I can't even claim to have the answer to. But as with all new technology, the price will only go down. What is indisputable, however, is that good ADB implementations are beneficial. The reason the US has not allowed ADB yet is that early implementations were nothing more than money grabs by automakers. Automakers trotted out immature ADB systems that would randomly high beam people and wanted to charge extra for it. In other words: bait&switch. Bait the consumer with promises of better lighting, and give them a half-baked system.

Last edited by Dave_Mark; 01/24/20 12:13 PM.
Re: Adaptive Driving Beam, Thoughts? [Re: Vern_in_IL] #5331053 01/24/20 12:20 PM
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Yeah, HID's are a dead end. All of the development is in LED's because they're semiconductor devices and the envelope on these is constantly being pushed. And LED's give car designers great freedom in styling.

But in the long term it's all moot anyway.

In 50 years external lighting will no longer be necessary because cars will all be self driving.

And 50 years after that, cars will no longer be necessary because either we would simply digitize and transfer our consciousnesses to temporary host bodies at our destinations, or we would no longer exist because global warming. grin2

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