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0-20 oil #5284641 12/04/19 06:27 AM
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rokwldr Offline OP
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Me being old school it took me a long time to get used to 10-30 motor oil. We just bought a Jeep Grand cherokee and it calls for 0-20. The 0 worries me and I would like to use 5-20. I just don't know if that's a good idea while under warranty. I will definitely use Mobile 1 as I have been for years. It has lifetime tranny fluid and that worries me too. Any thoughts?

Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284642 12/04/19 06:30 AM
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JustN89 Offline
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In your climate, a 5W-20 will do anything a 0W-20 can do, and vice versa. However, run whatever your manual tells you to and maintain that warranty.

Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284648 12/04/19 06:42 AM
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PimTac Offline
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A lot of vehicles run 0w20 these days. It’s a 20 grade. In general the 0w oils have a better base. Go with your favorite brand of oil and have no worries.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284649 12/04/19 06:43 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Why does the winter rating bother you? It is a 20-grade oil, the winter rating is irrelevant to the operating viscosity.


1994 BMW 530i, 251K
1996 Honda Accord, 280K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 428K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284652 12/04/19 06:46 AM
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danez_yoda Offline
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I think the veil of the lifetime transmission fluid has been lifted as BS. Lifetime of the transmission in their eyes is longer than the warranty. after that you are a revenue source for them or a POed customer with a dead transmission at somewhere over 100K miles.

The general consensus is to do drain and fills that only partially drain the transmission (3-4 qts of of 12 or so) every 30K miles. The first ones are most important to get the new transmission filings out of it so they don't cause trouble. After that just, you are just refreshing the additives to the fluid.

If you do nothing, your transmission may well last 200K miles. With regular maintenance, you have a much better shot.

The key to these things are to make sure you get the refill level correct. Some have detailed procedures that involve having the vehicle on level ground (measure the bottom rail of the vehicle) and the transmission oil at a certain temperture before you close the drain valve. The drain valve has a spillover "straw" that sets the hot fluid level by allowing the fluid to spill out the drain as the tranny warms up. Once done cap it off and you're good. Once you've done it a few times its no big deal but measuring the temperature and getting to the drain and refill plugs can be a pain.

I have toyotas with these glorious devices. I bought a $25 scan gauge to read the trucks transmission temperature to do this job. Its bluetooth wireless so I can be under the truck and see the temperature on my cellphone (old android phone I don't mind getting greasy).


As for oil, I run 0W20 is fine in high heat states. I'm in Texas and my sienna runs 0w20 to 10K miles (per the manual), I check the level at 5K and reset the maintenance light. Oil and filter look fine at 10K Dark amber and clear not inky black. My manual says I can use 5w20 for one 5K OCI but change back to 0W20 the next time so it won't blow up for sure. Most likely a EPA gas mileage thing for the greater company.

Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284654 12/04/19 06:48 AM
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aquariuscsm Offline
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Trust me,I was the exact same way! The thought of 0W20 freaked me out! I played around with a few different viscosities and went back to 0W20. I even tried 5W20 vs 0W20,and the 0W20 is a lot smoother and quieter in the engine, especially when good and hot. Like PimTac said, maybe its because the 0W has a better base oil and additive pack?

Try QSUD 0W20. Autozone has all QSUD weights on clearance for $2 a quart and $10 a 5 quart jug.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 0W20

Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284655 12/04/19 06:50 AM
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Donald Offline
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Go with 0W20. Both a 5W20 and a 0W20 are a 20 weight at engine operating temp. NAPA has 0W20 synthetic on sale this month. Its a good price at $18. I have been using it in both Subaru vehicles.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284707 12/04/19 07:51 AM
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ARCOgraphite Offline
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Some 20 grade KV40 are 38cSt and others are 50cSt,

So some 0w20 intended for squeezing every last bit of economy
might report a operating viscosity (KV100) of almost 1 cSt lower than
a average dexos 5W20.

So look at the specific product pds under consideration if you are more comfortable with
a "thicker oil" still in line with the manufacturers recommendations.

Also note that a good "true synthetic" PAO-base oil might provide better around town power and economy
by keeping rings unstuck and thus providing better " factory fresh" cylinder balance


Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 12/04/19 07:52 AM.

2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#2 7378mi-MOTUL Specific VW508.00+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#8 60864mi-Subaru Idemitsu 0W20 + SOA Filter
Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284736 12/04/19 08:47 AM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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I feel the same way...
Buy the 0w20.
Take a marker and write 20w50 on it.
All good.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284740 12/04/19 08:50 AM
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paoester Offline
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The fear is that 0w20 oils are using too much VII, and, if you don't need a 0w winter oil, then skip the extra VII so your pistons are cleaner. Also the long term shear stability is in question since 0w oils use thinner base oils in general.

That logic will almost work. Not quite though. ....All things being equal with base oil quality, it does make sense. Often they are not equal.

Like already said above, some 0w20 oils are made with more PAO to get a better viscosity index and low temperature flow properties without using too much VII plastic-based chemicals.

If an oil meets dexos1 specs, they test it for weighted piston deposits (WPD) and shear stability out the wazoo, so you're covered.
If still in doubt, use a majority-PAO 0w20 like Mobil1 Extended or Annual, or Ravenol oil, all 0w20.
If "out the wazoo" engine testing is not enough for you, then go up in performance specs to VW 508 (or LL-17FE+ or 229.71) 0w20 oil for more engine testing proof to make sure your oil is better.


2019 VW Tiguan S 4Motion, Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20, VW Mann oil filter
Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284776 12/04/19 09:35 AM
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Triple_Se7en Offline
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Originally Posted by rokwldr
Me being old school it took me a long time to get used to 10-30 motor oil. We just bought a Jeep Grand cherokee and it calls for 0-20. The 0 worries me and I would like to use 5-20. I just don't know if that's a good idea while under warranty. I will definitely use Mobile 1 as I have been for years. It has lifetime tranny fluid and that worries me too. Any thoughts?


5W20 should work well. Also, many lifetime tranny fluids can still be changed. Last year we changed our lifetime fluid in our former 03' FWD Chevy Malibu. Many oil change shops have the machine that hooks up to the tranny lines and transfers the old fluid out and installs new fluid, all in one step.

It was kinda' cool watching the procedure take place. Old dark tranny fluid slowly turned from dark to the normal color red, transferred by clear tubing as a witness to the procedure.


19' Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI - Valv Syn 5w30 / Napa Proselect filter / 6oz Liqui-Moly
20' Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 Multi-port / Factory-fill oil / filter
04' Colorado 3.5 / Castrol Edge 0W40 / K&N filter
Re: 0-20 oil [Re: rokwldr] #5284793 12/04/19 09:56 AM
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Rolla07 Offline
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Brainwashed by the thickies lol. 0w20 will be great. Change out the lifetime fluid every 60k miles. Thats what id do..maybe 20k miles for 1st change but 60k after that.


2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967
2015 Toyota Venza Parisian Blue Pearl 25k miles
TGMO 0W20 & OEM filter

Re: 0-20 oil [Re: paoester] #5284796 12/04/19 09:58 AM
Joined: May 2012
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SubieRubyRoo Offline
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Originally Posted by paoester
The fear is that 0w20 oils are using too much VII, and, if you don't need a 0w winter oil, then skip the extra VII so your pistons are cleaner. Also the long term shear stability is in question since 0w oils use thinner base oils in general.

That logic will almost work. Not quite though. ....All things being equal with base oil quality, it does make sense. Often they are not equal.


Got any hard data to back up your "fear"? Even better, do you have anything other than anecdotal "proof" that 0W20s are not sufficient in engines that the manufacturers specify this oil for?

Originally Posted by paoester
Like already said above, some 0w20 oils are made with more PAO to get a better viscosity index and low temperature flow properties without using too much VII plastic-based chemicals.


Again, where's the proof that 0W20s are made with "more" PAO? There are only a handful to start with that use PAO (the majority use Group III or GTL from evidence presented so far), and the oils that do use PAO likely haven't ever changed their original formula for the amount of PAO.

Originally Posted by paoester
If "out the wazoo" engine testing is not enough for you, then go up in performance specs to VW 508 (or LL-17FE+ or 229.71) 0w20 oil for more engine testing proof to make sure your oil is better.


Do you have any "out the wazoo" proof to show that just because an oil meets VW508/LL-17FE+/229.71 specs that it is applicable to a Jeep Grand Cherokee and that FCA will warranty the OP's engine if he suffers a failure? This is what I found on OP's engine:

Originally Posted by JGC OM
Engine Oil – 3.6L Engine
We recommend you use API Certified SAE 0W-20 Engine
Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA Material Standard
MS-6395 such as Mopar, Pennzoil, and Shell Helix. Refer to
your engine oil filler cap for correct SAE grade.


So, what I read as FACT is: use 0W-20 oil in the latest and greatest API specification (currently SN+) that ALSO meets MS-6395 requirements. Curiously, paoester, none of your recommendations are supported by the manufacturer's requirements...
crzy

Re: 0-20 oil [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5284844 12/04/19 11:05 AM
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Imp4 Offline
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Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Curiously, paoester, none of your recommendations are supported by the manufacturer's requirements...
crzy

Oh, what do those pesky OEMs know??
They only design it, build it, test it and approve it....
/s


2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.4 - 165k+
Grandma's creampuff...
Re: 0-20 oil [Re: danez_yoda] #5284849 12/04/19 11:16 AM
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N Heat Offline
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Originally Posted by danez_yoda


I have toyotas with these glorious devices. I bought a $25 scan gauge to read the trucks transmission temperature to do this job.




What scan gauge device are you using?

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