0-20 oil

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97
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dania bch, fl USA
Thread starter
Me being old school it took me a long time to get used to 10-30 motor oil. We just bought a Jeep Grand cherokee and it calls for 0-20. The 0 worries me and I would like to use 5-20. I just don't know if that's a good idea while under warranty. I will definitely use Mobile 1 as I have been for years. It has lifetime tranny fluid and that worries me too. Any thoughts?
 
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1,267
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ZFW
In your climate, a 5W-20 will do anything a 0W-20 can do, and vice versa. However, run whatever your manual tells you to and maintain that warranty.
 
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13,924
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...
A lot of vehicles run 0w20 these days. It's a 20 grade. In general the 0w oils have a better base. Go with your favorite brand of oil and have no worries.
 
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1,325
Location
texas
I think the veil of the lifetime transmission fluid has been lifted as BS. Lifetime of the transmission in their eyes is longer than the warranty. after that you are a revenue source for them or a POed customer with a dead transmission at somewhere over 100K miles. The general consensus is to do drain and fills that only partially drain the transmission (3-4 qts of of 12 or so) every 30K miles. The first ones are most important to get the new transmission filings out of it so they don't cause trouble. After that just, you are just refreshing the additives to the fluid. If you do nothing, your transmission may well last 200K miles. With regular maintenance, you have a much better shot. The key to these things are to make sure you get the refill level correct. Some have detailed procedures that involve having the vehicle on level ground (measure the bottom rail of the vehicle) and the transmission oil at a certain temperture before you close the drain valve. The drain valve has a spillover "straw" that sets the hot fluid level by allowing the fluid to spill out the drain as the tranny warms up. Once done cap it off and you're good. Once you've done it a few times its no big deal but measuring the temperature and getting to the drain and refill plugs can be a pain. I have toyotas with these glorious devices. I bought a $25 scan gauge to read the trucks transmission temperature to do this job. Its bluetooth wireless so I can be under the truck and see the temperature on my cellphone (old android phone I don't mind getting greasy). As for oil, I run 0W20 is fine in high heat states. I'm in Texas and my sienna runs 0w20 to 10K miles (per the manual), I check the level at 5K and reset the maintenance light. Oil and filter look fine at 10K Dark amber and clear not inky black. My manual says I can use 5w20 for one 5K OCI but change back to 0W20 the next time so it won't blow up for sure. Most likely a EPA gas mileage thing for the greater company.
 
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21,848
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Dallas,Tx USA
Trust me,I was the exact same way! The thought of 0W20 freaked me out! I played around with a few different viscosities and went back to 0W20. I even tried 5W20 vs 0W20,and the 0W20 is a lot smoother and quieter in the engine, especially when good and hot. Like PimTac said, maybe its because the 0W has a better base oil and additive pack? Try QSUD 0W20. Autozone has all QSUD weights on clearance for $2 a quart and $10 a 5 quart jug.
 
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24,604
Location
Upstate NY
Go with 0W20. Both a 5W20 and a 0W20 are a 20 weight at engine operating temp. NAPA has 0W20 synthetic on sale this month. Its a good price at $18. I have been using it in both Subaru vehicles.
 
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15,138
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N.H, U.S.A.
Some 20 grade KV40 are 38cSt and others are 50cSt, So some 0w20 intended for squeezing every last bit of economy might report a operating viscosity (KV100) of almost 1 cSt lower than a average dexos 5W20. So look at the specific product pds under consideration if you are more comfortable with a "thicker oil" still in line with the manufacturers recommendations. Also note that a good "true synthetic" PAO-base oil might provide better around town power and economy by keeping rings unstuck and thus providing better " factory fresh" cylinder balance
 
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Messages
640
Location
Colorado
The fear is that 0w20 oils are using too much VII, and, if you don't need a 0w winter oil, then skip the extra VII so your pistons are cleaner. Also the long term shear stability is in question since 0w oils use thinner base oils in general. That logic will almost work. Not quite though. ....All things being equal with base oil quality, it does make sense. Often they are not equal. Like already said above, some 0w20 oils are made with more PAO to get a better viscosity index and low temperature flow properties without using too much VII plastic-based chemicals. If an oil meets dexos1 specs, they test it for weighted piston deposits (WPD) and shear stability out the wazoo, so you're covered. If still in doubt, use a majority-PAO 0w20 like Mobil1 Extended or Annual, or Ravenol oil, all 0w20. If "out the wazoo" engine testing is not enough for you, then go up in performance specs to VW 508 (or LL-17FE+ or 229.71) 0w20 oil for more engine testing proof to make sure your oil is better.
 
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13,343
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1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Originally Posted by rokwldr
Me being old school it took me a long time to get used to 10-30 motor oil. We just bought a Jeep Grand cherokee and it calls for 0-20. The 0 worries me and I would like to use 5-20. I just don't know if that's a good idea while under warranty. I will definitely use Mobile 1 as I have been for years. It has lifetime tranny fluid and that worries me too. Any thoughts?
5W20 should work well. Also, many lifetime tranny fluids can still be changed. Last year we changed our lifetime fluid in our former 03' FWD Chevy Malibu. Many oil change shops have the machine that hooks up to the tranny lines and transfers the old fluid out and installs new fluid, all in one step. It was kinda' cool watching the procedure take place. Old dark tranny fluid slowly turned from dark to the normal color red, transferred by clear tubing as a witness to the procedure.
 
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5,442
Location
MTL, CANADA
Brainwashed by the thickies lol. 0w20 will be great. Change out the lifetime fluid every 60k miles. Thats what id do..maybe 20k miles for 1st change but 60k after that.
 
Originally Posted by paoester
The fear is that 0w20 oils are using too much VII, and, if you don't need a 0w winter oil, then skip the extra VII so your pistons are cleaner. Also the long term shear stability is in question since 0w oils use thinner base oils in general. That logic will almost work. Not quite though. ....All things being equal with base oil quality, it does make sense. Often they are not equal.
Got any hard data to back up your "fear"? Even better, do you have anything other than anecdotal "proof" that 0W20s are not sufficient in engines that the manufacturers specify this oil for?
Originally Posted by paoester
Like already said above, some 0w20 oils are made with more PAO to get a better viscosity index and low temperature flow properties without using too much VII plastic-based chemicals.
Again, where's the proof that 0W20s are made with "more" PAO? There are only a handful to start with that use PAO (the majority use Group III or GTL from evidence presented so far), and the oils that do use PAO likely haven't ever changed their original formula for the amount of PAO.
Originally Posted by paoester
If "out the wazoo" engine testing is not enough for you, then go up in performance specs to VW 508 (or LL-17FE+ or 229.71) 0w20 oil for more engine testing proof to make sure your oil is better.
Do you have any "out the wazoo" proof to show that just because an oil meets VW508/LL-17FE+/229.71 specs that it is applicable to a Jeep Grand Cherokee and that FCA will warranty the OP's engine if he suffers a failure? This is what I found on OP's engine:
Originally Posted by JGC OM
Engine Oil - 3.6L Engine We recommend you use API Certified SAE 0W-20 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395 such as Mopar, Pennzoil, and Shell Helix. Refer to your engine oil filler cap for correct SAE grade.
So, what I read as FACT is: use 0W-20 oil in the latest and greatest API specification (currently SN+) that ALSO meets MS-6395 requirements. Curiously, paoester, none of your recommendations are supported by the manufacturer's requirements... crzy
 
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1,861
Location
Somewhere in time
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Curiously, paoester, none of your recommendations are supported by the manufacturer's requirements... crzy
Oh, what do those pesky OEMs know?? They only design it, build it, test it and approve it.... /s
 
Messages
222
Location
VA
Originally Posted by danez_yoda
I have toyotas with these glorious devices. I bought a $25 scan gauge to read the trucks transmission temperature to do this job.
What scan gauge device are you using?
 
Messages
640
Location
Colorado
SubieRubyRoo, I think I know where your problems in understanding the concepts and facts are. It's OK you're confused. Not everybody is an engineer or chemist. 1. You reject the fact that VII polymers promote piston deposits. 2. You reject the fact that some 0w20 oils are formulated for higher performance standards. I encourage anyone to google info on these polymers and specs, unless you own your own engine lab and millions of dollars. (Let engineering do that for you.) Afton Handbook maybe: https://www.aftonchemical.com/Afton/media/PdfFiles/Afton-Chemical-Spec-Handbook-September-2019.pdf Its worth pointing out that the higher performance standards (VW 508, 229.71, LL-17FE+) mostly address longer drain intervals. The greater wear performance benefits anyone, yet most of the lower piston deposit benefits are there at the high mileage points in an interval. I would also encourage anyone to look at what is in 0w20 oils (base oil content the most visiible) and you'll notice a correlation between PAO% and performance level, sometimes adjusted by better intellectual property in the additive package.
 
Messages
222
Location
VA
I had posted a little while back about running a 0w 20 in my 2004 CRV. Someone posted this chart with recommended oils for Hondas. Can anyone tell me why a 0w20 would only be "acceptable" while still recommending 5w20 up until 2010 for CRVs? Im in Va with winters occasionally down to 0F and temps up to 100F possible May thru Sept.[Linked Image]
 
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640
Location
Colorado
Originally Posted by N Heat
2004 CRV .. Can anyone tell me why a 0w20 would only be "acceptable" while still recommending 5w20 up until 2010 for CRVs?
Its all about how rough an engine and typical usage pattern is on the oil. Note the S2000 is susceptible to more permanent VII shear, and Honda wants 10w30 for that to be sure. I don't think the "acceptable" word denotes anything inferior. Its their way of saying we've changed our mind now, at this point in time, based on better oils out there. Notice Honda has always only recommended low-performance spec oils, so weight is going to matter more in Honda's case. Other engine makers cautiously use higher performance spec oils (German engines mostly, GM to some extent) and rely on the more extensive tests with more expensive oils. That allows them to recommend longer oil change intervals too. They now recognize that current 0w20 oils have progressed enough to say they're fine in a 2004 CRV, for example. Honda looked at the current oil market (back in 2013 anyway for that specific chart) and spec standards, and updated their recommendations. Thats all.
 
@paoester, so your answer on proof of your claims is "I don't have any?" Got it. Oh, and BTW, both of your numbered statements are false as well. I'm fairly certain by the OP post that he wants to maintain warranty coverage, so unless the oil has SN(+) and MS-6395, all your quotes from Afton and non-related engine oil specs are moot. Outside of warranty coverage, sure, experiment away. I've got Ravenol DXG in my Subaru right now even though it doesn't need or require a dexos1 oil, and none of the other 6 specs it meets apply to my engine, outside of the API designation.
 
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