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Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: gfh77665] #5209002 09/10/19 07:53 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by gfh77665
Your 5w-30 ends up being a 5w-20 before you change it anyway...

According to the UOAs I had done mine hasn't.

Last edited by demarpaint; 09/10/19 07:54 AM.

God Bless Our Troops

Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: demarpaint] #5209004 09/10/19 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by gfh77665
Your 5w-30 ends up being a 5w-20 before you change it anyway...

Mine hasn't.

It's a ridiculous argument anyway. If a 30 shears down, then a 20 will too.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5209008 09/10/19 07:56 AM
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*Does the Rubicon OM list additional approved oil viscosities - or just the one ? In my Hyundai/Kia the OM lists 5W20 , 5W30 or 10W30 as being allowed - with the caveat that oil viscosity should be chosen based on the anticipated ambient temps during the upcoming OCI . I take this Hyundai/Kia statement to read : "While 5W20 is acceptable - 5W30 or 10W30 will provide more engine protection during the summer months" .


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W20 QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 Castrol EP / Fram Ultra #9999
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: CR94] #5209009 09/10/19 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
The answer for most people is to equally mix mix 5W20 / 5W30 oil of the same type and manufacturer - theoretically the best of both worlds for oil film thickness and flow to tighter tolerance engine parts and keep OCI's of less than 5K miles.
So the 5W-30 part maintains a thick film, while the 5W-20 part reaches out into "tighter tolerance engine parts" where only it can fit?

What parts in an engine have a clearance so tight [ tolerance is the allowed variance of the clearance ] that only a 20 wt will reach?


2015 F150 2.7
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Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: DGXR] #5209011 09/10/19 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DGXR
Thicker oil usually generates higher oil pressure, and since physics tells me that higher pressures equal higher temperatures, yes I can see a thicker oil leading to higher oil temps. Not to mention the engine is working harder to pump the thicker oil, generating more heat. And other things mentioned above. Makes sense to me.

It takes more power to move the oil .


2015 F150 2.7
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Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: rooflessVW] #5209015 09/10/19 08:02 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by gfh77665
Your 5w-30 ends up being a 5w-20 before you change it anyway...

Mine hasn't.

It's a ridiculous argument anyway. If a 30 shears down, then a 20 will too.


The 30 grade shearing down to a 20 is getting old fast. In a healthy engine with a good oil, running sane intervals there should be no problems with a 30 grade dropping to a 20 grade.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: ChrisD46] #5209049 09/10/19 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*Does the Rubicon OM list additional approved oil viscosities - or just the one ? In my Hyundai/Kia the OM lists 5W20 , 5W30 or 10W30 as being allowed - with the caveat that oil viscosity should be chosen based on the anticipated ambient temps during the upcoming OCI . I take this Hyundai/Kia statement to read : "While 5W20 is acceptable - 5W30 or 10W30 will provide more engine protection during the summer months" .
No; globally from 2019 onwards, they only specify 0W-20 for the 3.6L and 0/5W-30 for the 2.0L Turbo


2019 o)|||||(o Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited 3.6L V6 [Castrol Edge 0W-20 + FRAM Ultra]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 & Mann filter]
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: alarmguy] #5209050 09/10/19 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
I have agreed for a long time on the bearing thing but here is why, just found this, "Too thick oil, wonderful oil pressure, yet parts inside the engine could actually be starved for oil due to lowered volume. Another downer, circulating oil accounts for nearly 50% of engine cooling, so reduced oil-flow reduces cooling causing lubricated parts to operate at higher temperatures. Higher parts temperatures, more wear."
I am not concerned with "oil starvation"; modern engines have positive displacement pumps and the oil pressure remained the same for both oils (about 31 PSI at highway speeds). At 210-225°F oil temperatures, I would have to believe the oil is "thin enough" to reach all of the critical places.


2019 o)|||||(o Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited 3.6L V6 [Castrol Edge 0W-20 + FRAM Ultra]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 & Mann filter]
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: zeng] #5209052 09/10/19 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by zeng
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
I saw a 10°F minimum temperature delta from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and wanted to see if my situation was unique or it was expected. There are always trade-offs and compromises between viscosities and one thing that stuck out for me was at what point is the increased temperature a detriment over the benefit of high viscosity oil.


Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Yes; and I have since swapped back and forth from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and back to 0W-20 and have seen similar temperatures from each viscosity--though the 0W-40 will go a little higher (2-4°F). This engine seems to run at higher temperatures than what I am used to seeing, but from what I see on the Jeep forums, it is pretty normal (cannot say that I like it though). The 3.6L Pentastar was originally specified to run 5W-30 and was used in other countries until 2019 when 0W-20 was specified and at this point all countries specify 0W-20. With that said, I would have no issues running 5W-30 in it and I will likely continue with 0W-40 as I have a large stash of it from my AMG.

For a 0Wx0 full synthetic oil , I won't be bothered with operating temperature range of 80*C (180*F) and 105*C (220*F) in the context of temperature-driven 'accelerated' oil oxidation.
Instead a thicker oil in 0W40 'gains' higher MOFT over a thinner oil in 0W20 or 0W30 at no additional purchase cost , in fact lower cost in my market .
Zeng - agreed and since both oils are within a few degrees of each other, the MOFT provided by the 0W-40 has some benefits over the 0W-20 when working the engine.


2019 o)|||||(o Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited 3.6L V6 [Castrol Edge 0W-20 + FRAM Ultra]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 & Mann filter]
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5209125 09/10/19 10:25 AM
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Run nothing but 20 weight in mine and no issues. Spent many consecutive days in Moab heat, 20 hour drive each way, etc etc. The Pentastar just doesn't seem very hard on oil at all, usually do about 7-7.5k OCI. Absolutely tons of oil pressure too. I've never tried a 30 weight because it doesn't at all seem necessary based on my results with 20 weight.

Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5209156 09/10/19 11:20 AM
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Well let me tell you that just driving a car down the road is not working it at all. You are only using about 20% of it possible available hp. Now put that in a engine in Agriculture or the dirt working equipment that are running 100% of their hp and see how long your engine last. And I am talking about $80,000 engines vs your $2,000 engine. There is a reason you don't see thin oils in engines that have to work.

Last edited by rideahorse; 09/10/19 11:22 AM.
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: rideahorse] #5209164 09/10/19 11:25 AM
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I’m sure his engine is worth more than $2000 but your point is taken. It is a Apple’s to oranges comparison though.

Modern engines generally don’t work very hard in normal driving routines.


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Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5209193 09/10/19 12:09 PM
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[No; globally from 2019 onwards, they only specify 0W-20 for the 3.6L and 0/5W-30 for the 2.0L Turbo
[/quote]
Are they trying to tell us that they re-engineered the 3.6 to much tighter tolerances so the 5-30 they have spec'd for years is too thick now? I think not. It's for CAFE only. That's all they care about. Watch them go to 0-16 and 0-8 when it comes out. All they care about is getting the original owner out of warranty with acceptable failure numbers. It sounds to me like a lot of guys on here are going to use 0-16 and lower for "better flow and lower temps".

Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: rideahorse] #5209446 09/10/19 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rideahorse
Well let me tell you that just driving a car down the road is not working it at all. You are only using about 20% of it possible available hp. Now put that in a engine in Agriculture or the dirt working equipment that are running 100% of their hp and see how long your engine last. And I am talking about $80,000 engines vs your $2,000 engine. There is a reason you don't see thin oils in engines that have to work.

The reason is cost and commonality. Keep a few drums of 15W-40 and it covers all the equipment.

If an HD engine was designed to use a synthetic 0W-20, well, it would work just fine.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: CT8] #5209512 09/10/19 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by CR94
So the 5W-30 part maintains a thick film, while the 5W-20 part reaches out into "tighter tolerance engine parts" where only it can fit?
What parts in an engine have a clearance so tight [ tolerance is the allowed variance of the clearance ] that only a 20 wt will reach?
None.


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