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Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5206067 09/06/19 09:03 AM
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ChrisD46 Offline
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The answer for most people is to equally mix mix 5W20 / 5W30 oil of the same type and manufacturer - theoretically the best of both worlds for oil film thickness and flow to tighter tolerance engine parts and keep OCI's of less than 5K miles.


'17 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 5W30 PUP / Fram Ultra #9688
'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 (50%) / 5W20 (50%) QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 Castrol EP / Fram Ultra #9999
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: ChrisD46] #5206220 09/06/19 11:53 AM
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CR94 Offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisD46
The answer for most people is to equally mix mix 5W20 / 5W30 oil of the same type and manufacturer - theoretically the best of both worlds for oil film thickness and flow to tighter tolerance engine parts and keep OCI's of less than 5K miles.
So the 5W-30 part maintains a thick film, while the 5W-20 part reaches out into "tighter tolerance engine parts" where only it can fit?


2011 Toyota Prius now at 110K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5206362 09/06/19 02:44 PM
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DGXR Offline
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Thicker oil usually generates higher oil pressure, and since physics tells me that higher pressures equal higher temperatures, yes I can see a thicker oil leading to higher oil temps. Not to mention the engine is working harder to pump the thicker oil, generating more heat. And other things mentioned above. Makes sense to me.


1995 Corvette coupe LT1 6-speed
2006 Tacoma 2.7 Base SR5 AC
1999 Yamaha YZ400FL
2003 Honda XR400R
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: Shannow] #5206375 09/06/19 02:53 PM
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ka9mnx Offline
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Originally Posted by Shannow
...in fact, some OTR engine designs of the future will include thermal barrier coatings in the mid stroke area to artificially reduce the viscosity in the mid stroke region.

Is that possible with the speed the piston moves through that area?


2005 Ranger 3.0 - SuperTech Syn 0w-20/Motorcraft
2000 4Runner 3.4 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Toyota
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar
1993 F150 4.9 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: ka9mnx] #5206589 09/06/19 07:22 PM
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Shannow Offline
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Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by Shannow
...in fact, some OTR engine designs of the future will include thermal barrier coatings in the mid stroke area to artificially reduce the viscosity in the mid stroke region.

Is that possible with the speed the piston moves through that area?


Certainly is...it's the speed of the piston moving through the area that makes it attractive
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/9591723.pdf


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: Shannow] #5206872 09/07/19 07:43 AM
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ka9mnx Offline
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Thanks for the link. Now I've got some reading to do!


2005 Ranger 3.0 - SuperTech Syn 0w-20/Motorcraft
2000 4Runner 3.4 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Toyota
1997 B2500 Van 3.9 - M1 HM 10w-30/Mopar
1993 F150 4.9 - SuperTech Syn 5w-30/Motorcraft
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5206900 09/07/19 08:38 AM
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2015_PSD Offline OP
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I saw a 10°F minimum temperature delta from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and wanted to see if my situation was unique or it was expected. There are always trade-offs and compromises between viscosities and one thing that stuck out for me was at what point is the increased temperature a detriment over the benefit of high viscosity oil.


2019 o)|||||(o Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited 3.6L V6 [Castrol Edge + Ultra]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum + Mann filter]
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5207046 09/07/19 12:40 PM
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3311 Offline
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IMO I doubt seriously if an end user would be able to discern the the difference. Just to many variables.

Now in controlled lab setting it would be possible measure the slight variation in temps.

Last edited by 3311; 09/07/19 12:41 PM.

04 2500hd 6.0 278k/1k Pen HM 5w30 10w40 mix XG3675 VML ATF Dex
03 C7500 Dmax7.8l 134k ST 15w40,M1ATF Dex
06 2500hd 6.0 220k ? 5w30 ST DexVI PGL
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5207239 09/07/19 05:47 PM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
I saw a 10°F minimum temperature delta from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and wanted to see if my situation was unique or it was expected. There are always trade-offs and compromises between viscosities and one thing that stuck out for me was at what point is the increased temperature a detriment over the benefit of high viscosity oil.

I personally wouldn't lose any sleep over it so long as engine temps are still in normal range. But if you were inclined to, you could hunt down the lowest noack Xw40 you could find to appease any concerns about evaporative loss...but then it's a ROI question, isn't it? Watch your dipstick levels on the Xw40..if you're not having to top off more than you normally do, then I'd say the diff' is a non starter. Just my 2 pennies...

Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5208873 09/09/19 11:52 PM
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cb4017 Offline
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Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
I saw a 10°F minimum temperature delta from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and wanted to see if my situation was unique or it was expected. There are always trade-offs and compromises between viscosities and one thing that stuck out for me was at what point is the increased temperature a detriment over the benefit of high viscosity oil.


Was this in your Rubicon? I'm thinking of going to a 5w-30 in my 2019 Wrangler (3.6L). Off road and while towing my camper I've seen oil temps hit 240. I'm a little skeptical about thin oil holding up.


Cliff
USN Ret., FPD Ret.
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: cb4017] #5208954 09/10/19 06:11 AM
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2015_PSD Offline OP
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Originally Posted by cb4017
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
I saw a 10°F minimum temperature delta from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and wanted to see if my situation was unique or it was expected. There are always trade-offs and compromises between viscosities and one thing that stuck out for me was at what point is the increased temperature a detriment over the benefit of high viscosity oil.
Was this in your Rubicon? I'm thinking of going to a 5w-30 in my 2019 Wrangler (3.6L). Off road and while towing my camper I've seen oil temps hit 240. I'm a little skeptical about thin oil holding up.
Yes; and I have since swapped back and forth from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and back to 0W-20 and have seen similar temperatures from each viscosity--though the 0W-40 will go a little higher (2-4°F). This engine seems to run at higher temperatures than what I am used to seeing, but from what I see on the Jeep forums, it is pretty normal (cannot say that I like it though). The 3.6L Pentastar was originally specified to run 5W-30 and was used in other countries until 2019 when 0W-20 was specified and at this point all countries specify 0W-20. With that said, I would have no issues running 5W-30 in it and I will likely continue with 0W-40 as I have a large stash of it from my AMG.


2019 o)|||||(o Rubicon Wrangler Unlimited 3.6L V6 [Castrol Edge + Ultra]
2018 Mercedes Benz C300 2.0L Turbo [Pennzoil Platinum + Mann filter]
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5208974 09/10/19 07:22 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by cb4017
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
I saw a 10°F minimum temperature delta from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and wanted to see if my situation was unique or it was expected. There are always trade-offs and compromises between viscosities and one thing that stuck out for me was at what point is the increased temperature a detriment over the benefit of high viscosity oil.
Was this in your Rubicon? I'm thinking of going to a 5w-30 in my 2019 Wrangler (3.6L). Off road and while towing my camper I've seen oil temps hit 240. I'm a little skeptical about thin oil holding up.
Yes; and I have since swapped back and forth from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and back to 0W-20 and have seen similar temperatures from each viscosity--though the 0W-40 will go a little higher (2-4°F). This engine seems to run at higher temperatures than what I am used to seeing, but from what I see on the Jeep forums, it is pretty normal (cannot say that I like it though). The 3.6L Pentastar was originally specified to run 5W-30 and was used in other countries until 2019 when 0W-20 was specified and at this point all countries specify 0W-20. With that said, I would have no issues running 5W-30 in it and I will likely continue with 0W-40 as I have a large stash of it from my AMG.

I'm run currently running 0W30 in my 2016 Rubicon, previously 5W30. I see no noticeable difference in temps from the spec 5W20.

I do agree they run hot, a lot hotter than I'm used to seeing.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5208984 09/10/19 07:28 AM
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zeng Offline
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Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
I saw a 10°F minimum temperature delta from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and wanted to see if my situation was unique or it was expected. There are always trade-offs and compromises between viscosities and one thing that stuck out for me was at what point is the increased temperature a detriment over the benefit of high viscosity oil.


Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Yes; and I have since swapped back and forth from 0W-20 to 0W-40 and back to 0W-20 and have seen similar temperatures from each viscosity--though the 0W-40 will go a little higher (2-4°F). This engine seems to run at higher temperatures than what I am used to seeing, but from what I see on the Jeep forums, it is pretty normal (cannot say that I like it though). The 3.6L Pentastar was originally specified to run 5W-30 and was used in other countries until 2019 when 0W-20 was specified and at this point all countries specify 0W-20. With that said, I would have no issues running 5W-30 in it and I will likely continue with 0W-40 as I have a large stash of it from my AMG.

For a 0Wx0 full synthetic oil , I won't be bothered with operating temperature range of 80*C (180*F) and 105*C (220*F) in the context of temperature-driven 'accelerated' oil oxidation.
Instead a thicker oil in 0W40 'gains' higher MOFT over a thinner oil in 0W20 or 0W30 at no additional purchase cost , in fact lower cost in my market .

Last edited by zeng; 09/10/19 07:29 AM.
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5208988 09/10/19 07:37 AM
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alarmguy Offline
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I have agreed for a long time on the bearing thing but here is why, just found this,

"Too thick oil, wonderful oil pressure, yet parts inside the engine could actually be starved for oil due to lowered volume. Another downer, circulating oil accounts for nearly 50% of engine cooling, so reduced oil-flow reduces cooling causing lubricated parts to operate at higher temperatures. Higher parts temperatures, more wear."

Source, Click here

I do know for a fact (menaing have seen photos) that in many motorycycle transmissions where the person ran a heavy weight gear oil, the transmission bearings were very dark color to black which would indicate heat. Mind you, this is not the reason the transmission was being serviced, just an observation by a technician who took photos on many blackened bearings over time.


14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: Higher viscosity = higher operating temps? [Re: 2015_PSD] #5209000 09/10/19 07:51 AM
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gfh77665 Offline
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Your 5w-30 ends up being a 5w-20 before you change it anyway...

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