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Re: 2019 Honda Pilot OCI and Oil Choice [Re: klt1986] #5151963 07/05/19 09:00 AM
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Bought our 2019 Pilot at the end of February this year. It had been on the new car lot since it's build date of August 2018. Used it for a 3800 mile driving vacation end of March into early April. Last week with 4900 miles it was still showing 60 percent on the MM.

Went ahead and changed the factory fill because it was coming up to almost a year time wise on the oil. I didn't reset the MM for this early oil change but will be following the MM from now on. I used Mobil 1 AFE 0W20 and I figure the AFE will be in for around 5000 miles or so when the MM final gets down to indicating the "first" oil change. May switch over to Mobil 1 EP 0W20 for the longer intervals which I anticipate will be 8000-10000 as indicated by my MM so far.

I purchased 6 of the Honda A-01 oil filters on line. These filters are getting harder to find but some dealers still sell them for around $10.00 plus shipping. I got mine for about $5.00 each including shipping. Once these are gone, I will more than likely switch to the Mobil oil filter or the Fram Ultra Synthetic filters.

I had also read that this generation of the Pilot uses a different type VCM and will not be installing any type of limiter at this time. I also leave the ECO switch active and leave the Auto Idle Stop functioning. Every fill up since the dealer unknown complimentary fill up at purchase has been a Top Tier product, even on our 9 state driving vacation. Perhaps contrary to what the vast majority of Pilot owners are doing, but the car runs fine, has a 25 MPG lifetime average, and in mixed city/highway driving (70% city-30% highway) still getting between 21MPG and 22 MPG. We are retired so the car isn't driven every day but it is our only vehicle.


I had read that if a brand of gasoline doe not sell Top Tier at all of their stations nationwide, they can not advertise it as being Top Tier even at stations that may be selling a Top Tier gasoline. I think a few years ago there were some Costco stations selling Top Tier, but not all of them so they could not use the Top Tier advertising. They did finally get all of their stations as Top Tier sellers, so now they are on the list as Top Tier stations.

What is Top Tier gasoline?
Top Tier is a trademarked name. It refers to gasolines (and diesel fuels) that meet specific detergent additive specifications way beyond what the EPA requires. To get the Top Tier designation, a brand of gasoline must clean engines better using deposit control additives; it can’t contain metallic additives that can harm both the engine and the environment’ and it must be available across all octane levels at that brand’s stations. Benefits of Top Tier gasoline include:



Top Tier Gasoline


2019 Honda Pilot Touring AWD
Re: 2019 Honda Pilot OCI and Oil Choice [Re: klt1986] #5152015 07/05/19 09:57 AM
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UncleDave Online Content
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At first OCI I went right to an Xg7317 Ultra.

Considering the 20K it could be asked to stay in and better performance and construction - its an easy decision for me.

My Titan, my Polaris RZR and a few gensets I own use the same filter size so its super convenient for me to either pick them up at wal mart or order 6 packs from amazon.


UD


Uncle Dave
Cat 3126/2 MB3500/Titan/RX400H/17 Ridgeline
700HP V10/ 725HP BBC/ Raptor 700/ KFX450/ YZ250/Onan 8K/ Cat3011C
Re: 2019 Honda Pilot OCI and Oil Choice [Re: klt1986] #5152127 07/05/19 11:39 AM
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Hounds Offline
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Originally Posted by klt1986
Wife and I bought a 2019 Honda Pilot EX-L and it now has 3,400 miles on it. The maintenance minder is still at 70% oil life left. I'm guessing with the driving she does, the maintenance minder will show 15% just short of 10k miles....this is what our CR-V did.

I'm contemplating dumping the factory fill oil and filter around 5k miles. If my memory is correct, this is what I did on her CR-V. Any opinions on whether or not to run the factory fill until the maintenance minder drops to 15% or change it half way through? . . .

Kit1986, you're probably going to get as many different opinions as to whether you should change the factory fill ("FF") early as there are posters who respond to your question. Here's mine in a nutshell: I would change the FF earlier than Honda now recommends. My opinion, FWIW, is based on having owned a least a dozen new Hondas going back over more than 30 years. But let's start with Honda's thinking now.

First, what Honda now recommends, is simple enough: Follow the Mileage Minder ("MM"). However -- and this I think is really important -- for decades before Honda adopted the MM maintenance system, Honda owner's manual included an admonishment not to change the FF early because it was a "special oil" (Honda's term, not just mine). That same advisory also appeared verbatim in the Maintenance section of Honda's "official" website (www.owners.Honda.com) until approximately three years ago.

Let's talk about that "special oil" for a moment. As reflected here, for years Honda owners and non-owners have argued over whether the FF was indeed "special." Some argue that the molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) that shows up (to this day!) in oil samples is only assembly paste. Others -- and I'm one of them -- point to the language that appeared in the owner's manuals for decades and on the company's website for years. Let's be clear: the FF was called a "special oil." Nothing suggested otherwise. In any case, it doesn't matter who's correct as to the source of the MoS2 in the FF. What's important is that it's there, and the amount in the FF remains high -- over 800 ppm. (The oil analyses of the FF on this website confirm this and have for years.)

So, why then should you change the FF early? Well, to answer that question we have to determine what's "early." I am not recommending the FF be drained before the MoS2 in the oil has done what Honda intended with its advisory -- namely, establishing an anti-wear boundary layer on the bearing surfaces, rings, cylinder walls, camshaft lobes, etc.

How long is that going to take? Well, here again, let's look to Honda's history regarding this issue. Honda used to recommend changing the FF at 5k miles. Honda now recommends waiting until the MM indicates an oil change is due. Which advice should we follow? Well, you have to ask yourself why, for all practical purposes, Honda has doubled the mileage involved. (In this regard, as you may know, the MM will "trip" somewhere between 8k and 10k miles, depending on how the vehicles is driven.) IMHO, Honda changed the OCI for a host of reasons, including access to better oils, improved machining techniques, etc., and -- most significantly -- because the company wants to project the idea that its vehicles are environmentally friendly and inexpensive to maintain. Hence, the MM system. That's great for Honda, what about for you?

I'll leave that to you to decide. Me, I'm going with what I know works and has worked well for decades. Namely, I leave the FF in the engine for 5k miles, give or take. Maybe a bit less, 3.5k miles, if the engine's initial running-in has been mostly short trips of less than 10 miles or so. I, however, have not been persuaded that there's a significant benefit to leaving the FF in the engine for 10k miles (or whenever the MM trips). Also -- and this is just me -- I always change the initial factory oil filter early on -- 1.5k to 2k miles. Old habits die hard.

Now you want some real controversy? What are you going to replace the FF with? I've got a new Ridgeline with under 2k miles. This time, instead replacing the FF with just Mobil 1, which I've used for decades as well, I'm going to mix 3 quarts of Toyota's new 0W-20 weight oil (the one with 800-plus ppm of MoS2) with 2.5 quarts of Mobil 1's 0W-20 weight Extended Performance oil. (Both oils, btw, are formulated by Exxon-Mobil, so the mixing doesn't bother me in the least.) You might want to consider this too.

Re: 2019 Honda Pilot OCI and Oil Choice [Re: Hounds] #5152152 07/05/19 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Hounds
Originally Posted by klt1986
Wife and I bought a 2019 Honda Pilot EX-L and it now has 3,400 miles on it. The maintenance minder is still at 70% oil life left. I'm guessing with the driving she does, the maintenance minder will show 15% just short of 10k miles....this is what our CR-V did.

I'm contemplating dumping the factory fill oil and filter around 5k miles. If my memory is correct, this is what I did on her CR-V. Any opinions on whether or not to run the factory fill until the maintenance minder drops to 15% or change it half way through? . . .

Kit1986, you're probably going to get as many different opinions as to whether you should change the factory fill ("FF") early as there are posters who respond to your question. Here's mine in a nutshell: I would change the FF earlier than Honda now recommends. My opinion, FWIW, is based on having owned a least a dozen new Hondas going back over more than 30 years. But let's start with Honda's thinking now.

First, what Honda now recommends, is simple enough: Follow the Mileage Minder ("MM"). However -- and this I think is really important -- for decades before Honda adopted the MM maintenance system, Honda owner's manual included an admonishment not to change the FF early because it was a "special oil" (Honda's term, not just mine). That same advisory also appeared verbatim in the Maintenance section of Honda's "official" website (www.owners.Honda.com) until approximately three years ago.

Let's talk about that "special oil" for a moment. As reflected here, for years Honda owners and non-owners have argued over whether the FF was indeed "special." Some argue that the molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) that shows up (to this day!) in oil samples is only assembly paste. Others -- and I'm one of them -- point to the language that appeared in the owner's manuals for decades and on the company's website for years. Let's be clear: the FF was called a "special oil." Nothing suggested otherwise. In any case, it doesn't matter who's correct as to the source of the MoS2 in the FF. What's important is that it's there, and the amount in the FF remains high -- over 800 ppm. (The oil analyses of the FF on this website confirm this and have for years.)

So, why then should you change the FF early? Well, to answer that question we have to determine what's "early." I am not recommending the FF be drained before the MoS2 in the oil has done what Honda intended with its advisory -- namely, establishing an anti-wear boundary layer on the bearing surfaces, rings, cylinder walls, camshaft lobes, etc.

How long is that going to take? Well, here again, let's look to Honda's history regarding this issue. Honda used to recommend changing the FF at 5k miles. Honda now recommends waiting until the MM indicates an oil change is due. Which advice should we follow? Well, you have to ask yourself why, for all practical purposes, Honda has doubled the mileage involved. (In this regard, as you may know, the MM will "trip" somewhere between 8k and 10k miles, depending on how the vehicles is driven.) IMHO, Honda changed the OCI for a host of reasons, including access to better oils, improved machining techniques, etc., and -- most significantly -- because the company wants to project the idea that its vehicles are environmentally friendly and inexpensive to maintain. Hence, the MM system. That's great for Honda, what about for you?

I'll leave that to you to decide. Me, I'm going with what I know works and has worked well for decades. Namely, I leave the FF in the engine for 5k miles, give or take. Maybe a bit less, 3.5k miles, if the engine's initial running-in has been mostly short trips of less than 10 miles or so. I, however, have not been persuaded that there's a significant benefit to leaving the FF in the engine for 10k miles (or whenever the MM trips). Also -- and this is just me -- I always change the initial factory oil filter early on -- 1.5k to 2k miles. Old habits die hard.

Now you want some real controversy? What are you going to replace the FF with? I've got a new Ridgeline with under 2k miles. This time, instead replacing the FF with just Mobil 1, which I've used for decades as well, I'm going to mix 3 quarts of Toyota's new 0W-20 weight oil (the one with 800-plus ppm of MoS2) with 2.5 quarts of Mobil 1's 0W-20 weight Extended Performance oil. (Both oils, btw, are formulated by Exxon-Mobil, so the mixing doesn't bother me in the least.) You might want to consider this too.



Thanks for the excellent reply. You made a very good case to go ahead and change the FF at about 5k, IMO. I also like the idea of running another high moly oil. My idea is to change the FF at about 5k without reseting the MM. Then, I'd run the 2nd fill until the MM dropped to 15%. From that point on I'd follow the MM.

Re: 2019 Honda Pilot OCI and Oil Choice [Re: klt1986] #5152159 07/05/19 12:03 PM
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UncleDave Online Content
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What's in YOUR original factory filter?

What else is in your new engine the filter wont catch?

Here's what was in my 3.5 Honda.

[Linked Image]





Last edited by UncleDave; 07/05/19 12:04 PM.

Uncle Dave
Cat 3126/2 MB3500/Titan/RX400H/17 Ridgeline
700HP V10/ 725HP BBC/ Raptor 700/ KFX450/ YZ250/Onan 8K/ Cat3011C
Re: 2019 Honda Pilot OCI and Oil Choice [Re: klt1986] #5152280 07/05/19 02:37 PM
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Yup I keep logs of all of my oil changes. I changed the factory fill at a little over 7k miles. I now have almost 25k miles and the car does not burn any oil and there is no fuel dilution. The engine has low miles but I do not see any future issues with it. Honda is on the 3rd iteration of VCM and has worked out the issues that were on the 1st and 2nd iteration. There is a slight difference in the Accord 3.5 vs the 3.5 found on the Pilot and Ridgeline. The Accord 3.5 used multipoint injection vs direct injection which I am glad they did.

Last edited by Eddddd; 07/05/19 02:38 PM.
Re: 2019 Honda Pilot OCI and Oil Choice [Re: klt1986] #5152362 07/05/19 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by klt1986
. . . You made a very good case to go ahead and change the FF at about 5k, IMO. I also like the idea of running another high moly oil. My idea is to change the FF at about 5k without reseting the MM. Then, I'd run the 2nd fill until the MM dropped to 15%. From that point on I'd follow the MM.

Solid plan, IMHO. And I agree that you don't want to reset the MM at 5k. I just allow mine to do its thing. I'm often ahead on the maintenance recommended, but that's fine for me.

And Uncle Dave, WRT the pic you linked, Honda's website had (a now long gone) advisory that urged Honda owners not to worry about any "small" particles (they stated a size, but I don't recall what it was) that might not be captured by the two oil filters that Honda sold at the time (the A01 by Filtech and Honeywell's A02). Their point was the OEM filters are purposely designed to promote the flow of oil, not restrict it, and that whatever wasn't captured was so small that it was harmless, and actually beneficial in running-in a new motor. The fine texture, they argued, aided in honing the cylinders and seating the rings, and that it inevitably will be flushed out with the initial oil change. OK. All the more reason in my opinion to change the filter early and the FF NLT 5k.

Re: 2019 Honda Pilot OCI and Oil Choice [Re: Hounds] #5152382 07/05/19 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Hounds
Originally Posted by klt1986
. . . You made a very good case to go ahead and change the FF at about 5k, IMO. I also like the idea of running another high moly oil. My idea is to change the FF at about 5k without reseting the MM. Then, I'd run the 2nd fill until the MM dropped to 15%. From that point on I'd follow the MM.

Solid plan, IMHO. And I agree that you don't want to reset the MM at 5k. I just allow mine to do its thing. I'm often ahead on the maintenance recommended, but that's fine for me.

And Uncle Dave, WRT the pic you linked, Honda's website had (a now long gone) advisory that urged Honda owners not to worry about any "small" particles (they stated a size, but I don't recall what it was) that might not be captured by the two oil filters that Honda sold at the time (the A01 by Filtech and Honeywell's A02). Their point was the OEM filters are purposely designed to promote the flow of oil, not restrict it, and that whatever wasn't captured was so small that it was harmless, and actually beneficial in running-in a new motor. The fine texture, they argued, aided in honing the cylinders and seating the rings, and that it inevitably will be flushed out with the initial oil change. OK. All the more reason in my opinion to change the filter early and the FF NLT 5k.


Im doing what I can to catch the very small particle that go round and round through the filter - especially when I'm towing at max weight and revving the snot out of the mill which I do with regularity.

at some point, polishing means removal of material.

I woudlnt say Im worried about them, but I'd rather have cleaner oil than not for the very low price of a better filter and mag.

A dual layer synthetic flows better than the cellulose/ fibre AO series even though it filters better. Since the vehicle has a positive displacement pump I'm not worried about any difference in flow.

UD


Uncle Dave
Cat 3126/2 MB3500/Titan/RX400H/17 Ridgeline
700HP V10/ 725HP BBC/ Raptor 700/ KFX450/ YZ250/Onan 8K/ Cat3011C
Re: 2019 Honda Pilot OCI and Oil Choice [Re: klt1986] #5152444 07/05/19 05:48 PM
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I changed the FF at 2500 miles to 0W-20 Mobil 1 EP and a Fram XG7317. I'm at 17K miles and my new plan is just change oil and filter every 10K starting at 20K with Mobil1 EP/Fram XG7317. Then I'll be on the same schedule as my Lexus RX350. Right now no oil consumption and no fuel dilution and there was plenty of TBN left at 7500 miles on my last OA with Mobil 1 EP.

Yeah, yeah...blah, blah warranty stuff blah blah. It will never be an issue....

Here's a fact....after keeping detailed records for every car I've owned (15 now since I was 16 years old) and every maintenance procedure performed on each car I have NEVER been asked to produce those records for warranty work or when trading the car into a dealership. Not once...so I'm settling on what's convenient for me. Screw the maintenance minder.

Last edited by PWMDMD; 07/05/19 05:59 PM.

Current: 2019 Lexus RX 350 (Mobil AFE 0W-30 and Toyota OEM Filter) and 2018 Honda Pilot Touring (PP 5W-30 and Mobil 1 EP M1-110A Filter)
Re: 2019 Honda Pilot OCI and Oil Choice [Re: klt1986] #5152613 07/05/19 10:16 PM
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Don't overthink it. You'll be fine following the MM for the FF and future oil changes. The FF is filled with synthetic and as long as you use a good synthetic oil and top tier gas, you have nothing to worry about. I have never seen the MM go beyond what a good synthetic oil can handle.

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