Originally Posted by Hounds
Originally Posted by klt1986
Wife and I bought a 2019 Honda Pilot EX-L and it now has 3,400 miles on it. The maintenance minder is still at 70% oil life left. I'm guessing with the driving she does, the maintenance minder will show 15% just short of 10k miles....this is what our CR-V did.
I'm contemplating dumping the factory fill oil and filter around 5k miles. If my memory is correct, this is what I did on her CR-V. Any opinions on whether or not to run the factory fill until the maintenance minder drops to 15% or change it half way through? . . .
Kit1986, you're probably going to get as many different opinions as to whether you should change the factory fill ("FF") early as there are posters who respond to your question. Here's mine in a nutshell: I would change the FF earlier than Honda now recommends. My opinion, FWIW, is based on having owned a least a dozen new Hondas going back over more than 30 years. But let's start with Honda's thinking now.
First, what Honda now recommends, is simple enough: Follow the Mileage Minder ("MM"). However -- and this I think is really important -- for decades before Honda adopted the MM maintenance system, Honda owner's manual included an admonishment not to change the FF early because it was a "special oil" (Honda's term, not just mine). That same advisory also appeared verbatim in the Maintenance section of Honda's "official" website (
www.owners.Honda.com) until approximately three years ago.
Let's talk about that "special oil" for a moment. As reflected here, for years Honda owners and non-owners have argued over whether the FF was indeed "special." Some argue that the molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) that shows up (to this day!) in oil samples is only assembly paste. Others -- and I'm one of them -- point to the language that appeared in the owner's manuals for decades and on the company's website for years. Let's be clear: the FF was called a "special oil." Nothing suggested otherwise. In any case, it doesn't matter who's correct as to the source of the MoS2 in the FF. What's important is that it's there, and the amount in the FF remains high -- over 800 ppm. (The oil analyses of the FF on this website confirm this and have for years.)
So, why then should you change the FF early? Well, to answer that question we have to determine what's "early." I am not recommending the FF be drained before the MoS2 in the oil has done what Honda intended with its advisory -- namely, establishing an anti-wear boundary layer on the bearing surfaces, rings, cylinder walls, camshaft lobes, etc.
How long is that going to take? Well, here again, let's look to Honda's history regarding this issue. Honda used to recommend changing the FF at
5k miles. Honda now recommends waiting until the MM indicates an oil change is due. Which advice should we follow? Well, you have to ask yourself why, for all practical purposes, Honda has doubled the mileage involved. (In this regard, as you may know, the MM will "trip" somewhere between 8k and 10k miles, depending on how the vehicles is driven.) IMHO, Honda changed the OCI for a host of reasons, including access to better oils, improved machining techniques, etc., and -- most significantly -- because the company wants to project the idea that its vehicles are environmentally friendly and inexpensive to maintain. Hence, the MM system. That's great for Honda, what about for you?
I'll leave that to you to decide. Me, I'm going with what I know works and has worked well
for decades. Namely, I leave the FF in the engine for 5k miles, give or take. Maybe a bit less, 3.5k miles, if the engine's initial running-in has been mostly short trips of less than 10 miles or so. I, however, have not been persuaded that there's a significant benefit to leaving the FF in the engine for 10k miles (or whenever the MM trips). Also -- and this is just me -- I always change the initial factory oil filter early on -- 1.5k to 2k miles. Old habits die hard.
Now you want some real controversy? What are you going to replace the FF with? I've got a new Ridgeline with under 2k miles. This time, instead replacing the FF with just Mobil 1, which I've used for decades as well, I'm going to mix 3 quarts of Toyota's new 0W-20 weight oil (the one with 800-plus ppm of MoS2) with 2.5 quarts of Mobil 1's 0W-20 weight Extended Performance oil. (Both oils, btw, are formulated by Exxon-Mobil, so the mixing doesn't bother me in the least.) You might want to consider this too.
Thanks for the excellent reply. You made a very good case to go ahead and change the FF at about 5k, IMO. I also like the idea of running another high moly oil. My idea is to change the FF at about 5k without reseting the MM. Then, I'd run the 2nd fill until the MM dropped to 15%. From that point on I'd follow the MM.