Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks

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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: JAG
Overkill, I agree that that would be great to find out the answer. Other than for testing, I have no use for PP or PUP 0W-20. I will keep asking my friends if they have have some synthetic 0W-20 made my Pennzoil, Quaker State, Castrol, or Valvoline. Yes, I’m being cheap!


I have some 5w-30 here, but it would probably be hazardous waste shipped across the border, LOL! I'll ask Rand and see if he has any that he might give up for the sake of testing
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Oh good, you are ok with xW-30. I don’t mind buying 10W-30 PP for testing and then using it in my mower.
 
I have a stash if we could come up with an easy way to sample and mail them.

Available
pennzoil ultra platinum yellow bottle 5w20

m1 0w40 euro (1 year old)

motul 300v power racing 5w30, non-api rated street/race oil (unicorn pee)

delvac 15w40 CJ-4

peak 5w30 conv.

subaru 0w20

Royal Purple 0w20 -aprox 2 years old formula

G-oil 5w30

Valvoline VR1 10w30 syn.

Havoline "deposit shield" 20w50 conv.

rotella t5 15w40 syn blend.

I'd be willing to spend upto 10$ or so to ship you whatever you wanted of those.. need ideas what I could ship it in (inside a box of course)

maybe specimen containers?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXBWIYV/ref=psdc_15757581_t2_B00BUOLO6Y
 
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When said and done just pour yourself 5w30 quality shelf synthetic. Valvoline or Quakerstate never hurt no iron block
 
Originally Posted By: mx5miata
When said and done just pour yourself 5w30 quality shelf synthetic. Valvoline or Quakerstate never hurt no iron block



Of course most engines these days have aluminium blocks.
 
Rand, that is very cool of you to be willing to ship some oil. At least for now, I don’t want to do sign up for doing any testing. I might be willing to in the not-too-distant future. I’ll let you know if I’d like a sample. The Motul 300V intrigues me simply because it is the Rolex of motor oils in terms of cost.

It would be great if other members did some testing. It would be both fun and informative. The testing I’ve shown above doesn’t require any expensive or hard to find equipment. Blow-torch, vice-grips, metal plate, and a knife is what I used. I have used an expensive electronic scale, syringes, hard-to-find aluminum and porcelain cups, thermocouple, and a toaster oven in tests years ago. That equipment set is more expensive and harder to acquire. So, are any of you willing to do some testing? You can choose your own methods. It just needs to done carefully and consistent enough and be able to differentiate performance between some oils. For example, subjecting oils to conditions that turns every one of them into complete char can’t differentiate them. Neither can trying to have the oils attempt to dissolve deposits that are impossibly difficult to dissolve.

I plan to do a few more tests like the type I showed results for above. I do want to see if adding 10% ester to 90% Mobil 1 0W-20 EP improves its ability to dissolve the varnish. If synergy happens and it performs as well as Amsoil SS and Castrol 0W-40, it perhaps indicates an antidote to that particular Mobil 1’s weakness in the cleaning category. If it still doesn’t perform as the other two oils did, perhaps it indicates a limitation with its detergents and/or dispersants. I am also curious how Pennzoil Platinum performs.

I did do a different test but I concluded that there was too much variability in it to be useful. Used syringe to put equal volumes of Mobil 1 0W-20 EP in two aluminum cups. Needle-nose pliars held the two cups side by side while I heated them very rapidly from below with a blow torch. Combustion happened after around 10 to 15 seconds and I kept the blow torch on them until all smoking ceased. The combustion was very sooty and air drafts blew the flames in all directions. The deposits were very inconsistent between the two cups. After cool-down, added equal volumes of M1 and Amsoil to the separate cups and let them sit for 24 hours, occasionally bringing the temperature up to around 140 F. The carbon-covered ash deposits were largely loosened from the cups’ surfaces while the other deposits were so thoroughly hardened that neither oil could dissolve them. Too much variability between the cups’s deposits and the deposits were either undissolvable or too easily dislodged, depending on their type.

I have plans for a different test that tests the oil’s ability to keep surfaces clean while mixed with gasoline and a small amount of water. The gasoline has poor oxidative stability and will first stress the oils’ antioxidants and then when they deplete enough, the detergents and dispersants will be stressed because of the polar reaction products that are building up. The base oils will then also be stressed because of the depleted antioxidants, which are the protectors of the base oils. Water has a devastating effect on the additives and the base oils. It is well known by experts and I observed it in tests I did years ago. Water is a catalyst for a variety of undesirable reactions. Why include water? It is a product of combustion, so our motor oils have to endure its effects, particularly the oil in the ring packs.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'd be curious to see if LG Biotech Engine Protectant does any cleaning with their esters

Me too. Maybe I will buy some. I almost did months ago.
 
Originally Posted By: JLTD


Thanks. Seems like a lot of experienced/knowledgeable members have left in the last few months.


You should have seen this place over a decade ago. Night and day.

Tons of experts that slowly bailed during that time frame.
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
The Motul 300V intrigues me simply because it is the Rolex of motor oils in terms of cost.


Both the Torco SR5, and the Millers CFS NT racing oils either match, or surpass the 300V in price, depending on from whom, and where you purchase them.
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dailydriver, those are some crazy expensive oils!

Have an update with a picture down the oil fill hole in my 2010 2.3L Ford Ranger. You can see how dark the Amsoil oil is. It’s been in use for 2k miles. The metal looks quite clean. I’m just posting this because I mentioned the darkness earlier but didn’t show a photograph of it.
 
Update on one of the aluminum cups that I burnt M1 in until it smoked no more and had baked on deposits. Then fresh oil sat in the cup for 24 hours which for the most part only removed some of the black char deposits. The varnish deposits were largely too insoluble for the oil to remove. Out of curiosity, last night I put Bore Tech Rimfire Blend in one of the cups. This is meant for cleaning bores of .22 cal rimfire guns. I just wiped it out with a paper towel and it indeed took a fair amount of varnish off, as you can see in the photo below. I am fairly impressed. It cleaned after Amsoil SS 5W-20 removed what it could. There is still a lot of varnish that it didn’t remove as you can see in the picture of the cup in the second picture. The last picture shows the cup right after the oil was burnt in it.

 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
JAG, I still have yet to see ANY oil manufacturer that claims that their oil "cleans". Every. single. reference. I can find simply mentions that the oil will: "keep pistons xx% cleaner than industry standards" or "50% greater sludge protection" or "75% more engine protection" etc etc etc.... I have yet to see any oil that mentions that it will actually "clean" varnish or sludge without using a solvent. In the cases where a "new" oil washes some of the old contaminants out, I think this is simply a function of the fact that there is oil that is not already loaded with contaminants washing past some deposits. I'd love it if you could reference ANY industry test which shows an oil that actually REDUCES deposits that are already in-place from another, lower quality oil.

I haven't found any, and I'm pretty sure there's a darn good reason that no oil manufacturer advertises their oils as a "cleaning agent". I'd love to be proven wrong using a scientific method.


Very late to this party...that's the problem. Varnish is formed somewhere (think hot and blowby reactive species), then when it reaches the limits of the oil's solubility gets dropped out...often in places like rocker covers which are large flat cool spaces...then each and every pass drops some more out.

New oil will pick it up, but is probably quickly saturated in those areas too.

I did 500-1,000km OCIs on the Caprice With shell "advanced cleaning" and nothing helped.

We know from the turbine cases that putting a kidney loop Electrostatic device, cellulose depth media, or ion exchange varnish removal systems that the circulating oil, will clean up existing deposits fairly quickly, but it must have the varnish being continuously removed, almost completely.

Keep wracking my head on how I could invent a scale sized unit for cars...
 
Have read through the thread 4 times today...didn't even know it was going on until buster PMed me.

I'm impressed.

And the bell just rang in my head that I've got 6 off Intake rocker arms off my L67 (upgraded the inlet rockers to 1.9:1 the only time I've got a tax return in 2decades +...then sold the car when we moved) at the old house (need to sell that too).

Plus the rocker locating bridges.

So a handfull of naturally varnished parts from the same engine (BTW, they had a few thousand km of 20% Canola in the sump with Delo Gold Ultra as the balance).
 
Welcome to the party, Shannow! That’s great that you have some varnished parts to experiment on. If the varnish is so hard that it isn’t even slightly sticky, you’ll probably to have use elevated temperatures to get even the best cleaning oils to clean at all. That will make the testing less convenient and add another variable that you’ll have to keep as consistent as possible across tests.
 
This really is an excellent thread and harks back to the "old" BITOG where this sort of experimentation was encouraged and civil discourse about the experimentation methodology and improving it, took place.

Shannow, welcome to the party! I didn't realize you hadn't seen this thread, and I apologize for not bringing it to your attention.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'd be curious to see if LG Biotech Engine Protectant does any cleaning with their esters.


In the thread I had the VOA of LG Biotech, I also had a few email discussions with LG... long story short, the answer was it will not really remove deposits but will prevent any additional deposits from forming.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
This really is an excellent thread and harks back to the "old" BITOG where this sort of experimentation was encouraged and civil discourse about the experimentation methodology and improving it, took place.

Shannow, welcome to the party! I didn't realize you hadn't seen this thread, and I apologize for not bringing it to your attention.




Dittos on this. This has been very informative.
 
Originally Posted By: Toh1
So 0w20 ep is less effective to remove sludge than regular 0w20 Mobil 1 high mileage.




Is this a question or a statement? If a statement then some reference should be included.
 
I did a very different test with Amsoil SS 5W-20 and M1 0W-20 EP. It was a high-temp., multi-stage test designed to stress the oils by first by oxidation (with steel and copper catalysts), then subject them to 2 water drops in each oil while heated. Then I wiped a layer of walnut oil, which has poor oxidative stability, on a steel block and then put 2 drops of each already tested motor oils on the blocks. Then I continued to heat (up to around 300 F for an hour) those steel blocks with the motor oil/walnut oil mixtures until a significant amount of varnish formed on the steel block that M1 was on, and a little varnish formed that Amsoil was on. Pictures taken along the way follow.

During and after the first test stage, I noted that M1 was noticeably more volatile, that Amsoil corroded the copper more, and that the steel blocks looked very similar with no varnish deposits on either of them. The copper corrosion can be caused by certain additives and possibly reactive degradation byproducts. This test was far from enough torture to make these oils start spitting deposits. It was enough torture to cause copper corrosion and make both oils smell nasty. Their color darkened similarly and moderately.



See next post for the next test stage.
 
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