Amsoil Signature Series dark after only 2 weeks

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Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
JAG, I still have yet to see ANY oil manufacturer that claims that their oil "cleans". Every. single. reference. I can find simply mentions that the oil will: "keep pistons xx% cleaner than industry standards" or "50% greater sludge protection" or "75% more engine protection" etc etc etc.... I have yet to see any oil that mentions that it will actually "clean" varnish or sludge without using a solvent. In the cases where a "new" oil washes some of the old contaminants out, I think this is simply a function of the fact that there is oil that is not already loaded with contaminants washing past some deposits. I'd love it if you could reference ANY industry test which shows an oil that actually REDUCES deposits that are already in-place from another, lower quality oil.

I haven't found any, and I'm pretty sure there's a darn good reason that no oil manufacturer advertises their oils as a "cleaning agent". I'd love to be proven wrong using a scientific method.


This is the closest I've seen:

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-...s-running-clean
 
Overkill, that's probably the closest, but check the hot topics: "Mobil 1 keeps engines running clean", "better resist the formation of sludge", "maintain their viscosity", "prevent deposits from forming"... exactly proves my point! None of these adjectives include something like "removes", or "eliminates", or "reverses".... Mobil will "show" alleged cleaning in a video but won't legally step on the landmine by claiming it does because it likely doesn't work in every instance!
 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Overkill, that's probably the closest, but check the hot topics: "Mobil 1 keeps engines running clean", "better resist the formation of sludge", "maintain their viscosity", "prevent deposits from forming"... exactly proves my point! Mobil will "show" alleged cleaning in a video but won't legally step on the landmine by claiming it does because it likely doesn't work in every instance!


Yup, that's why I said closest
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: danez_yoda
Did you premix the 10w and 5w oil before pouring the in the engine? If not it was the 10w and 5w oils wrestling with each other and knocking sludge loose like a couple of teen age boys in a sheetrock room.
smile.gif


I thought M1 was a good cleaning oil but i guess not. I have seen posts of people claiming that the first time they used pup after running m1 their oil turned black fast.

Might have been varnished up real good and is just getting cleaned.



Oil colour means next to nothing. Certain additives change colour when exposed to heat which will rapidly change the appearance of the oil. Reactions with combustion byproducts can also yield the same effect.

Given the OP used an additive, that throws any theories that could be tabled about the differences between the two lubes out the window, as that's another variable in the mix.


Agree - both that Amsoil clean well and color means next to nothing.

Amsoil recommends NO additives so that could be part of the color issue since OP's test didn't include heat testing the additive.

JAG, I wouldn't run the SS less than 5000 miles even if it was mixed with other oils - and might even take a UOA at that point to see if it can go further. This IS a long OCI oil after all.
 
If ur so worried why not run a uoa? Nobody here is going to tell u what's going on. Your vegetable oil experiments haven't been able to calm ur nerves either sooooo....
 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Here's some info (that may or may not be entirely relevant and truthful) since we keep losing industry experts that had helped this site to some bad attitudes and lack of appreciation by snow-it-alls.

Answers most all of OP's questions

I'm really bummed about Mola's departure. I always really enjoyed his insight. I don't know if anyone knows how to get a hold of him and try to talk him back, but losing his input is a big loss to this site.
 
Originally Posted By: JustN89
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Here's some info (that may or may not be entirely relevant and truthful) since we keep losing industry experts that had helped this site to some bad attitudes and lack of appreciation by snow-it-alls.

Answers most all of OP's questions

I'm really bummed about Mola's departure. I always really enjoyed his insight. I don't know if anyone knows how to get a hold of him and try to talk him back, but losing his input is a big loss to this site.


Molakule? I don't know what happened....got a story or a link?
 
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: JustN89
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Here's some info (that may or may not be entirely relevant and truthful) since we keep losing industry experts that had helped this site to some bad attitudes and lack of appreciation by snow-it-alls.

Answers most all of OP's questions

I'm really bummed about Mola's departure. I always really enjoyed his insight. I don't know if anyone knows how to get a hold of him and try to talk him back, but losing his input is a big loss to this site.


Molakule? I don't know what happened....got a story or a link?

LINK
 
XOM says that when first using the M1 High Milegae oils with sludged engines, to do a short OCI. I did not find them to be superb at cleaning in the varnished VW GTI 1.8T engine I had for 200k miles.

Check out the video Shannow posted in the following thread. The oil has varnish in it, and it is floating around but not solubized, hence the haziness. The oil is heated up and once it reaches a high enough temperature it can solubize the varnish, eliminating the haziness. http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2492051

This is also from Shannow: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B72RMQAMdx4iejZwcHBRT3ZPZl9hWFdILWFSaENxQ3Y1SGJR/view
Turbine oils have started changing to less polar Group II base oils than Group I oils more commonly used previously. Varnish problems have developed as a result. With the Group I oils, they degraded in a somewhat linear fashion. With Group II oils, they can be in great shape according to commonly used metrics, and then quite rapidly degrade and deposit varnish. It would happen unexpectedly and once it happens, there is a mess and damaged or ruined equipment.

Typical UOAs are not well suited to telling whether an oil has lost its ability to keep the equipment clean. It will have some indicators (insolubles, oxidation, nitration, TAN, viscosity) but they aren’t sensitive indicators. Much research has been done to develop tests to indicate that. One of them is RULER, but it is typically used on oils with antioxidants of the hindered phenol and aromatic amine type. http://testoil.com/services/oil-analysis/ruler/
Another is Membrane Patch Colorimetry: http://cleanoil.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/MPC_Whitepaper.pdf
Here is an interesting thesis paper: http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:328033/FULLTEXT01.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Here's some info (that may or may not be entirely relevant and truthful) since we keep losing industry experts that had helped this site to some bad attitudes and lack of appreciation by snow-it-alls.

Answers most all of OP's questions

I didn’t ask any questions and it’s apparent that you don’t know me very well. I am as disappointed that Molakule hasn’t posted, since last week or so, as anyone else is. PM me if you would like to discuss anything further about this.
 
Originally Posted By: JustN89
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Originally Posted By: JustN89
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Here's some info (that may or may not be entirely relevant and truthful) since we keep losing industry experts that had helped this site to some bad attitudes and lack of appreciation by snow-it-alls.

Answers most all of OP's questions

I'm really bummed about Mola's departure. I always really enjoyed his insight. I don't know if anyone knows how to get a hold of him and try to talk him back, but losing his input is a big loss to this site.


Molakule? I don't know what happened....got a story or a link?

LINK


Thanks. Seems like a lot of experienced/knowledgeable members have left in the last few months.
 
Last edited:
Sounds like the oil is doing it’s job. Our Mini turns oil black quickly, and it’s a non-turbo port injected engine with zero deposits. Must be blow-by.
 
Abbreviations: Amsoil Signature Series 5W-20 = Ams; Mobil 1 0W-20 EP = M1
What I did:
Continuing from plate with two varnish deposits that came from M1...a day after picture above was taken, put two drops of fresh Ams on one varnish deposit and two drops of fresh M1 on the other.
Keep at room temperature for 24 hours.
Gently remove oils with tissue.
Spray just enough throttle body cleaner on steel plate to remove oils, which has negligible effect on any varnish.
Gently slide clean and dry finger on each deposit. Deposit that M1 was on was tacky and uniformly of significant thickness. Very little varnish was left where Ams was, based on viewing it and no tackiness was felt.
Photograph. First picture below is one I took. Cheap camera like I used doesn’t show it very well.
Scrape each deposit with very sharp straight razor. Photograph varnish that was scraped off. Second picture below shows the varnish that was scraped off where M1 was. Nothing showed up on the blade where Ams was. This is consistent with past tests of different natures, but I did not expect that Ams could dissolve varnish at room temperature in 24 hours. Impressive.



 
In the past, I focused on resistance to deposit formation as well as volatility. This testing of deposit removal ability is largely new territory for me, so I’m learning what test procedures work well as I go. I think I will next use small aluminum cups and fill them with oil to 1/8 inch depth. The cups are thin so I can heat them up very rapidly with a blow torch, causing the oil to combust. A carbonaceous mess will remain and then fresh oil will be put in after cooldown. I’ll see how well different oils clean that mess without any rubbing. I’ll see if elevated temps. are necessary. This is somewhat like cleaning dirty piston ring grooves. This will be oil-borne deposits rather than a combination of that and fuel-borne deposits that are on pistons. Later testing could combust a mix of oil and fuel.
 
Interesting test JAG. The only grade of M1 that claims cleaning power is the 0w40, both the FS and ESP. The PDS’s both state “provides exceptional cleaning power.” The PDS also stated “ultra high end base oils.”

It’s hard to determine what the differences are but if I had to guess I’d say the 0w40 uses POE and the other grades of M1 are using XOM’s AN’s. Just a guess. They do make a clear distinction between with their wording between the 0w40 and rest of the M1 oils. The others it appears to be more an emphasis on preventing deposits.
 
buster, I agree that M1 0W-40 seems to have some ester in it.
Overkill, I will repeat the previous test I did except replace Amsoil with Castrol 0W-40. I will keep M1 0W-20 EP in the test and also use it to create the varnish.
 
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