VW 2.5L and 502 Approved Oils

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Before getting married and buying my first German car, I had never heard of buying specific oil (other than weight) for a car. Can you all explain to me why a certain 5w-30 is approved and some aren't? This is a non turbo, inline 5 car, out of warranty. What is different about the oil? What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?
 
Originally Posted By: CARJ
What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?


Increased wear and deposits.

VW 502 oils are readily available - Mobil 1 0W40 and Castrol Edge 0W40 or 5W40 are at Wal-Mart for good prices.
 
Originally Posted By: CARJ
Before getting married and buying my first German car, I had never heard of buying specific oil (other than weight) for a car. Can you all explain to me why a certain 5w-30 is approved and some aren't? This is a non turbo, inline 5 car, out of warranty. What is different about the oil? What is the harm in running a non 502 approved oil?

If you search on Google that you will get thousands of results.
In short: Euro specific oils have higher HTHS, stay in grade requirements, lower oxidation and NOACK. Generally they are more stringent and usually developed from better base oils.
IMO best Euro specific oil for Euro gassers that is readily available? Castrol 0W40 available in Wal mart.
 
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?
 
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?

But research! Numerous topics on this. Literally thousands!
It is manufacturer requirement. EP is simply not stringent as let's say Mobil1 0W40. Manufacturer sets requirements based on their demands (which on Euro cars usually is connected to high strains and speeds). When VW develops engines it does not develop with Kansas in mind but with Auto Bahn in mind, and those are different requirements.
By the way, Toyota also recommends heavier oils for Europe, mostly ACEA A3/B3 B4 for gassers and ACEA C3 for diesels.
 
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The 502 spec is built around ACEA A3 specs plus VW's own specs and wear tests, and requires the traits mentioned by edyvw above.

The M1 EP 5W30 doesn't meet all of those standards. It was not tested or approved by VW. If you want to run it in your car and tell us the results, go for it.
 
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?


It seems like you want someone tell you using a non 502 oil is all fine and dandy. Why is this so important? It has already been said you can find the 502 stuff at walmart right next to the other stuff....

Also, Pennzoil 0w-40 euro is on clearance at walmart for $10 and is 502 approved...
 
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I believe that VAG was experiencing engine sludge problems when they extended oil change intervals. Their response was:
1. VW 502 spec
2. Increased capacity oil filters, which also increase engine oil capacity
 
I'm just curious as to why some oils are okay and some aren't even if they are the same weight.
 
The us uses thin and light oils, Europe likes heavier weight oil, light weight oil is for fuel economy, ACEA spec is way better than API, read into it, way more demanding, also in Europe, to call an oil synthetic, it must be made with a PAO group IV, not group III, so to get euro spec synthetic, it must meet those mfg specs. Even Honda in Europe calls for acea a3/b4. Only use 0/20 for fuel economy or use 0/30, 5/40 or a 0/40
 
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CAFE credits.

The automakers can sell CAFE credits and profit by them. Every 1/10 of 1 MPG counts. The profits are real.
The automakers must be careful by specifying and recommending the same oil viscosity used in testing.
They cant use a 0W20 during the test procedure and print in the owners manual this car requires 5W30.
VW historically didn't play the CAFE credit game in the USA like the others did.

BTW CARJ, I was a technician at a Honda dealer when your Civic HX came out. You have a rare keeper. They got great gas mileage with the 5 speed and
felt faster than the EX model despite having less HP. The rare CVT HX had a short transmission lifespan and most have long been in the junkyard.
 
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
The us uses thin and light oils, Europe likes heavier weight oil, light weight oil is for fuel economy, ACEA spec is way better than API, read into it, way more demanding, also in Europe, to call an oil synthetic, it must be made with a PAO group IV, not group III, so to get euro spec synthetic, it must meet those mfg specs. Even Honda in Europe calls for acea a3/b4. Only use 0/20 for fuel economy or use 0/30, 5/40 or a 0/40


Please tell us what brand of oil is PAO? We will be waiting.
 
I always assumed that it was for drain interval, and so specified a quality oil. Audi pretty much said "If you run an oil that is good enough to meet this spec, and you are on time with your intervals, you wont have issues for the lifetime of the car" So if youre running shorter intervals, or have some way of measuring how well the oil is holding up, then I wouldnt worry so much. One of my employees runs our cheaper Cam2 5/30 Semi syn in his 03 1.8t A4, and saw no issues with 5k intervals. I ran it in a friends 2006 BMW 325i and they recommended a 7500 interval with a recheck. He only went 6 or so, no issues what so ever. I have also seen Audis that push the interval with 502 oil and have had no serious issues. A customer of ours HAD an 07 A4 2.0t from new that saw about 45k a year. Everytime he came in hed be 1500-3k over the 10k interval, rarely adding oil. He made it to 290k before it overheated on his commute one day. So their spec isnt so bad for absolute bare minimum needed.
 
VW 502/505 is a specifcation that builds on ACEA A3/B4.

Most oils that meet ACEA A3/B4 or ACEA C3 meet VW 502/505. They're very easy oils to find.

As long as the engine oil you pick is of a similar viscosity and has a HTHS of 3.5 or more I doubt you would see any immediate issues, if any long term providing the OCI is reigned in a bit.

However, as I said above VW 502/505 oils are cheap and easy to find. So why bother with anything else?
 
Originally Posted By: CARJ
But why? Most here would say Mobil 1 EP 5w-30 is a good oil. Not 502 approved. What makes it fine for a Toyota engine but not okay for a VW engine? How would it cause more wear and deposits?


M1 ESP has lower TBN (and lower additive levels) not suitable for U.S. gasoline engines.
 
im with carj on this same question, with respect to the non turbo 2.5 and 2.slow engines. i dont doubt the higher quality of the vw spec oil but always wondered if it is overkill for the non turbos. i assume that the answer is part logistical: dealers need to stock just one oil, and oci is a standard one year or 10k miles.

as others said, im guessing that a decent non vw spec, at least semi syn, oil is ok for a 5k mile oci on a non turbo out of warranty engine. has anyone done so long term? it would be nice to have a drive up, non dealer, oil change option.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
The us uses thin and light oils, Europe likes heavier weight oil, light weight oil is for fuel economy, ACEA spec is way better than API, read into it, way more demanding, also in Europe, to call an oil synthetic, it must be made with a PAO group IV, not group III, so to get euro spec synthetic, it must meet those mfg specs. Even Honda in Europe calls for acea a3/b4. Only use 0/20 for fuel economy or use 0/30, 5/40 or a 0/40


Please tell us what brand of oil is PAO? We will be waiting.


No need to wait, these are all PAO full synthetic oils.

https://www.castrol.com/de_de/germany/car-engine-oil/motorenol-nach-typ/vollsynthetischen-olen.html
 
I've been running Valvoline Synpower 5w-30 in mine. Car is fine. Burns a 1/2 to a whole quart every 10,000 miles. If the engine dies I'll update.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Bullwinkle007
The us uses thin and light oils, Europe likes heavier weight oil, light weight oil is for fuel economy, ACEA spec is way better than API, read into it, way more demanding, also in Europe, to call an oil synthetic, it must be made with a PAO group IV, not group III, so to get euro spec synthetic, it must meet those mfg specs. Even Honda in Europe calls for acea a3/b4. Only use 0/20 for fuel economy or use 0/30, 5/40 or a 0/40


Please tell us what brand of oil is PAO? We will be waiting.


No need to wait, these are all PAO full synthetic oils.

https://www.castrol.com/de_de/germany/car-engine-oil/motorenol-nach-typ/vollsynthetischen-olen.html


I would think these oils are not close to full PAO. My guess there would be some Grp 3 and esters as well.
 
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