Originally Posted by edyvw
You are right about one thing, it is choice. Toyota, regardless of Supra and some other cars, was not across the world recognized as primarily builder of sporty cars. In the end Toyota, VW, BMW are all in business of making money.
So yes, it is choice and yes, their engines are not as sophisticated, because of their choice. Toyota did sell 1.8 VVT-I engines to for example Lotus, but that is irrelevant, BMW and Mercedes are doing it and selling it to much more expensive manufacturers of exotic cars. Point is that unlike Toyota, BMW does not shy to sell twin turbo twin scroll engine in 525d that is used for taxis services for example. It is their choice that they do not do that, but that choice also means that over time, because of focusing on customer base that drive 20mph below speed limit in left lane, they have to go with BMW for new Supra, according to, well, Toyota engineers.
And all this focus on Supra, GT3000. There are numerous European cars that left far greater impact on automotive world than Supra or 3000GT, like Lancia Integrale, Audi Quattro etc. Integrale and Quattro were at it before Subaru knew what is rally championship in the first place. Putting turbo in sports cars in 80's and 90's is not Japanese specialization as one could buy in Europe far cheaper, for every day use cars with turbo like Passat's, Vectra's (actually Vectra A had an excellent engine, problem was that rest of the car was developed under watchful eye of GM accountants). Japanese manufacturers deliberately shy away from turbo downsizing that started in 1990's as they, correctly, understood that that will have an impact on reliability, but that is why today their 2.0T engine is somewhere in mediocrity of all other engines. And BMW did not enter this turbo era late. In 1997 BMW and FIAT were two companies who pushed common rail technology to masses and probably pushed VW to cheat decade later as they bet on wrong technology (PD). Going back to sophistication, next time I see taxi in Berlin that is Toyota and has three turbos and 200k on the clock, we can talk about sophistication. Yes it is choice, but every choice comes with consequences.
Funny you'd mention common rail injection, as the first mass produced vehicle it was ever used on was the Hino (a subsidiary of Toyota) Ranger, which used Denso (a subsidiary of Toyota) common rail injection.
I'm sure Dr. Shohei Itoh was secretly a German, though.
You are right about one thing, it is choice. Toyota, regardless of Supra and some other cars, was not across the world recognized as primarily builder of sporty cars. In the end Toyota, VW, BMW are all in business of making money.
So yes, it is choice and yes, their engines are not as sophisticated, because of their choice. Toyota did sell 1.8 VVT-I engines to for example Lotus, but that is irrelevant, BMW and Mercedes are doing it and selling it to much more expensive manufacturers of exotic cars. Point is that unlike Toyota, BMW does not shy to sell twin turbo twin scroll engine in 525d that is used for taxis services for example. It is their choice that they do not do that, but that choice also means that over time, because of focusing on customer base that drive 20mph below speed limit in left lane, they have to go with BMW for new Supra, according to, well, Toyota engineers.
And all this focus on Supra, GT3000. There are numerous European cars that left far greater impact on automotive world than Supra or 3000GT, like Lancia Integrale, Audi Quattro etc. Integrale and Quattro were at it before Subaru knew what is rally championship in the first place. Putting turbo in sports cars in 80's and 90's is not Japanese specialization as one could buy in Europe far cheaper, for every day use cars with turbo like Passat's, Vectra's (actually Vectra A had an excellent engine, problem was that rest of the car was developed under watchful eye of GM accountants). Japanese manufacturers deliberately shy away from turbo downsizing that started in 1990's as they, correctly, understood that that will have an impact on reliability, but that is why today their 2.0T engine is somewhere in mediocrity of all other engines. And BMW did not enter this turbo era late. In 1997 BMW and FIAT were two companies who pushed common rail technology to masses and probably pushed VW to cheat decade later as they bet on wrong technology (PD). Going back to sophistication, next time I see taxi in Berlin that is Toyota and has three turbos and 200k on the clock, we can talk about sophistication. Yes it is choice, but every choice comes with consequences.
Funny you'd mention common rail injection, as the first mass produced vehicle it was ever used on was the Hino (a subsidiary of Toyota) Ranger, which used Denso (a subsidiary of Toyota) common rail injection.
I'm sure Dr. Shohei Itoh was secretly a German, though.
