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Viscosity thickening, long drain #4659405
02/07/18 06:58 PM
02/07/18 06:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,514
Saskatchewan, Canada
pitzel Offline OP
pitzel  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,514
Saskatchewan, Canada
90,000km/10 years since my last oil change, Esso XD-3 0W-30 oil.

High temperature Viscosity thickening is a well known feature of long drains. But just searching, I'm not able to find any good material, UOA's, etc., on what happens to the cold temperature viscosity of motor oil subjected to long drains.

XD-3 0W-30 is a Group IV PAO oil, with very high viscosity index basestocks. After 90,000k (56k miles), its probably safe to assume that any viscosity modifiers have been depleted. But in an oil with minimal viscosity modifiers due to high VI basestocks, would cold-temperature viscosity thickening be significant?

Any good papers? I see one, "ASTM STP621_S4 Cold Starting and Oil Pumpability An Evaluation of New and Used Oils in Gasoline Engines", but its very old (~1980) and implies that a 'used' 10W-30 becomes a 20W-40 in their case. Not sure such logic is applicable to modern synthetics though which don't rely upon viscosity modifiers.


Change your thinking...not your oil!
Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659426
02/07/18 07:18 PM
02/07/18 07:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,179
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,179
US-WA
With a 56 k mile stretch, what is the sump size?


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 103K Napa 10w30, FULL
04 YZF-R1 19K DELO 15w40, XG7317
99 HD XL1200S 21K VR1 20w50, NG1515
14 RX450h 35k PP MIX, NG7047
Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: Dyusik] #4659428
02/07/18 07:21 PM
02/07/18 07:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,514
Saskatchewan, Canada
pitzel Offline OP
pitzel  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,514
Saskatchewan, Canada
About 5L or so.


Change your thinking...not your oil!
Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659452
02/07/18 07:49 PM
02/07/18 07:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,895
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,895
New Zealand
10 years, that's a line in the sand I hope to get to.


1987 BMW R65 - Aegis SAE30
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659478
02/07/18 08:16 PM
02/07/18 08:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 511
maple ridge, bc
2004tdigls Offline
2004tdigls  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 511
maple ridge, bc
nothing personal but this is a ridiculous OCI, just change the oil

I can't imagine what the inside of engine looks like

5 liters?

wow

Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659502
02/07/18 08:33 PM
02/07/18 08:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Papers are often intertesting and informative background, but they won't tell you the status of your oil and engine. For that you need testing, DIY and/or contracted out.

UOA doesn't normally make sense to me since it costs more than an oil change, but here you're pushing the envelope into "research" territory, so it'd be justified, and if you havn't done it you perhaps should.

I'd also look into DIY viscosity and pH testing (which needn't be very precise to detect extreme changes) and "quality" testing like the blotter spot test.

Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659513
02/07/18 08:40 PM
02/07/18 08:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 509
NC
Matagonka Offline
Matagonka  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 509
NC
I don't get why people like to stretch their oil changes this far. Oil is freaking cheap!

Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659524
02/07/18 08:47 PM
02/07/18 08:47 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 718
Canada
i_hate_autofraud Offline
i_hate_autofraud  Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 718
Canada


With a long drain like that and if the oil looks thick on the dip stick, I would have run the engine till warm then added
2 cups of kerosene and let it idle for 30 minutes, then do the oil change, you'd get it all out and the engine would be cleaner!

Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659544
02/07/18 09:10 PM
02/07/18 09:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,129
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,129
Dallas,Tx USA
I'd think after 56,000 mile oil change that the engine would be toast.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20

Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659547
02/07/18 09:15 PM
02/07/18 09:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
FermeLaPorte Offline
FermeLaPorte  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
Change the oil, man


Always Mobil 1
2014 1.6L Nissan Versa Sedan, 5 spd, 5k OCI.
2011 3.5L Chevrolet Impala, Automatic, 5k OCI.
Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659558
02/07/18 09:32 PM
02/07/18 09:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 849
NC
Vladiator Offline
Vladiator  Offline
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 849
NC

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3719052/40k_mile_OCI_pics#Post3719052

Here is OP's engine at 40k miles into this oil change back in 2015, when the oil was contaminated with coolant. Just change the oil, it's cheaper than repairs.

Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659589
02/07/18 10:14 PM
02/07/18 10:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,171
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,171
Waco, TX
I am truly impressed. That 3.1 was a TOUGH engine!

What oil filter change interval do you use?

Originally Posted By: pitzel

Details:
GM LH0 Engine (3.1L V6) manufactured 1992
January 2004, installed XD-3 0W-30 (100k)


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3719052/


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659632
02/08/18 01:20 AM
02/08/18 01:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,241
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,241
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Cold weather performance generally slips as the oil is used. I believe slipping a "w" grade is acceptable in normal use. Over that OCI, I wouldn't venture a guess. wink


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: pitzel] #4659912
02/08/18 10:43 AM
02/08/18 10:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 842
SD - South Dakota
meborder Offline
meborder  Offline
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 842
SD - South Dakota
Quote:
90,000km/10 years since my last oil change, Esso XD-3 0W-30 oil


New gauntlet thrown down....


Too many cars using too many different oils to list in 150 characters.
Re: Viscosity thickening, long drain [Re: meborder] #4660499
02/08/18 10:54 PM
02/08/18 10:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,171
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,171
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: meborder
Quote:
90,000km/10 years since my last oil change, Esso XD-3 0W-30 oil


New gauntlet thrown down....


Pretty much.

I do not have the balls to try to top that.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
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