As hybrids without turbochargers tend to produce varnish rather than sludge it makes sense to look for oils that mention resistance to varnish formation or resistance to NOx-oxidation (nitrooxidation) or suitability for use in hybrids. If I remember correctly Dexos oils have declared increased resistance to oxidation, however, this was always mentioned in the context of turbocharger protection i.e. high-temperature oxidation rather than NOx-oxidation. Does Dexos1-Gen3 approval include some tests for varnish formation or what is your motivation for looking for Dexos1-gen 3?
Toyota Hybrid Recommendations
- Thread starter lone_hot_pocket
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Firsts oil change by 1k miles and I would run a thicker oil. 5w-30 if the engine allows for it or 0w-20.
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- Joined
- Mar 14, 2023
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- 206
What’s the reason why?
With all the feedback thus far, my understanding is that any Euro spec oil would be better than a non Euro spec of a comparable grade. Does a move to a Euro spec oil seem like overkill for the normal hybrid use with a 5k OCI?
Euro spec oil provides you with an additional safety cushion - e.g. extended OCI due to some unforeseen circumstances, sustained high speed driving, highly spirited driving at elevated altitudes (mountain passes), etc.
With 5k OCI you should be perfectly fine with any API SP oil.
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While we aim for 5k OCI we sometimes end up with 7k to 10k, moreover, the Camry sometimes enjoys left lane of German highways (100 mph+), and my spouse enjoys spirited driving - narrow curvy roads leading to mountain passes provide you with marvelous sights, hot oil when going uphill and very hot brakes when going downhill (hybrid is heavy and engine braking has its limits).
With 5k OCI you should be perfectly fine with any API SP oil.
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While we aim for 5k OCI we sometimes end up with 7k to 10k, moreover, the Camry sometimes enjoys left lane of German highways (100 mph+), and my spouse enjoys spirited driving - narrow curvy roads leading to mountain passes provide you with marvelous sights, hot oil when going uphill and very hot brakes when going downhill (hybrid is heavy and engine braking has its limits).
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Bumping this back up, for those interested, M1 EP 0w-20 went in yesterday with an OEM filter. Plan to start doing UOA after completion of this OCI at 5k miles. Still not sure which oil I'll use long term but planning to experiment a bit with both 0w-20 & 0w-30 oils in coming years with the UOA as a guide for permanent direction.
There’s nothing that a cheap spectrographic analysis is going to show that will illustrate whether a 20- or a 30-grade oil is better.
From my reading it seemed that there is indication of a "wear" cliff event existing somewhere between a min. HTHS of 2.6 & 2.9 whereby you see increased engine wear. I figure that could be reflected via UOA. Am I missing something/incorrect regarding this difference being visible?
Yes wear increases at about that HT/HS. The problem is that a UOA is not the tool to determine comparative wear. There are far too many uncontrolled variables in everyday driving to ascribe any observed change to one single variable. Wear comparison between oils is a test performed in a laboratory in a complicated test such as is contained in Sequence IVA and Sequence VII. What you’re trying to do is read something that’s deep in the noise for a spectrographic analysis.
Makes sense now. Suppose UOA would only be helpful with interval evaluation. That said, on the oil side I may switch to an 0w-30 in the summer for the HTHS improvement alone. It may just be peace of mind thing and not result in any meaningful benefit, who knows.
If I bought a Toyota calling for 0w8 I'd use a quality 0w20 synthetic like M1EP, PP, QS, Valvoline etc....and change it at 5 or 6K (depending on how much short trip driving was done). Fractional MPG gains are less important to me than long term durability and of course cost and availability of 0w20.
This is especially valid for base oil properties. The anti-wear additives and partially also the friction modifiers prevent the increased wear regardless of the low HTHS, therefore crazy-low HTHS oil is capable of surprisingly low wear that matches oils with higher HTHS.
On the other hand, as the clearances are lower and the oil film thickness is reduced I believe with the lower viscosities it is more important to replace the oil before there is a lot of carbon in it.
If I remember correctly, in one of the studies (paper on the development of a new 0w-16 oil from Nissan) the difference in timing chain wear rates between a fresh oil and a used oil (15 000 km/10 000 miles) was 5 to 10 folds.
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