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Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? #4646654
01/26/18 07:06 AM
01/26/18 07:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,408
Kansas
Kruse Offline OP
Kruse  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,408
Kansas
So we all know that it takes advertising to keep a site like this open, right? You know that this site doesn't operate for free and companies that have an oil-related product come here to pay and put up some advertising. It's how BITOG stays up and running. (Okay, a little money by some members here helps)

So I have a couple of questions that I would like answered.

Question #1: Why would the parent company of Fram ever pay to advertise here? You've got one person on this site who always gives the Fram Ultra or Extra Guard glowing reports no matter what. He's also got a bunch of minions who jump in relentlessly thinking that any other filter besides a Fram will ruin your engine in short time or bashing anybody who uses another brand. Any thread that starts out as a non-Fram thread instantly becomes a Fram thread and the bashing soon starts whenever somebody tells why they didn't use the Fram Ultra or the Extra Guard filter. Fram doesn't need to pay to advertise here, it's FREE!

Question #2: Why would ANY other brand of filter advertise here? Again, there is one person who bashes any other filter besides a Fram. Have you seen the post count of the same member just on a single topic when discussing a competitor's filter? Either the competition is priced higher than Fram and it's a waste of money or I even saw a recent post where a filter was priced too low and shouldn't be used. Again, any non-Fram thread instantly becomes a pro-Fram thread and the arguing begins. The non-Fram manufacturers get bashed because they won't give out proprietary information or get bashed because an email wasn't returned. There are a couple dozen other reasons to get bashed, but the rules don't apply to Fram. The on-Fram companies probably never will advertise here because they constantly get bashed.

So I guess my question is this: If you were a filter manufacturer of any brand, why would you want to advertise on this site?

Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646659
01/26/18 07:18 AM
01/26/18 07:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 742
Georgia
MParr Offline
MParr  Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 742
Georgia
WOW! Maybe this is what Iíve been trying to get across and it just doesnít come out correctly. Well said!


2013 KIA Optima EX 2.4L. Now: QSUD 5W30 & STP S2808ML
2017 Ford Escape SE 2.0T Now: Mobil 1 5W30 & NAPA Gold 1348
Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: MParr] #4646669
01/26/18 07:35 AM
01/26/18 07:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,937
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,937
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Possibly to try a new style of communicating?

Run ads with FACTS (what a concept).
Run a limited time promotion which ships their filters to your door at fantastic savings. INCLUDE a discount coupon for detailed oil analysis.
Put a time limit on the oil analysis coupon too.
See if there's a spike in your filter sales.

Hmmm....anybody ever counted the number of people who frequent this filtration section? There mightn't be any impact possible.

Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646674
01/26/18 07:46 AM
01/26/18 07:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 742
Georgia
MParr Offline
MParr  Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 742
Georgia
For any and all non-FRAM companies, I suggest recruiting someone to join this site to combat some of this stuff. That person needs to be better at PR than the local FRAM commander.


2013 KIA Optima EX 2.4L. Now: QSUD 5W30 & STP S2808ML
2017 Ford Escape SE 2.0T Now: Mobil 1 5W30 & NAPA Gold 1348
Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646675
01/26/18 07:46 AM
01/26/18 07:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,315
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,315
Cincinnati, OH, USA
This is (or was, until recently) the place to go for FACTS on filters, oil, everything. Lately there seems to be some trolling action going on-does this mean I'm not allowed to use my 99 cent Super Tech ST8A filters I picked up recently? Too cheap? Or the Bosch Distance Plus filters which were $3 each from the WM closeout? And we wonder why long time members aren't posting any more!


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: bullwinkle] #4646680
01/26/18 07:53 AM
01/26/18 07:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 742
Georgia
MParr Offline
MParr  Offline
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 742
Georgia
Bullwinkle
If you are confident with what you have been doing, good for you. I think what is being said here has been a long time coming.


2013 KIA Optima EX 2.4L. Now: QSUD 5W30 & STP S2808ML
2017 Ford Escape SE 2.0T Now: Mobil 1 5W30 & NAPA Gold 1348
Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646681
01/26/18 07:55 AM
01/26/18 07:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,972
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,972
NY
I see it a little differently. If I were confident I was manufacturing a good product I'd advertise here, a little healthy competition is good. OTOH if I were turning out [censored] and knew it I'd pass. One such filter brand comes to mind.... wink And they don't advertise here, smart move....


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646687
01/26/18 08:03 AM
01/26/18 08:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 567
Madison, Wisconsin
TWG1572 Offline
TWG1572  Offline
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 567
Madison, Wisconsin
I think this forum is like any other, "flavor of the day" products go in cycles. Fram is the flavor of the day. I think advertisers realize that's just the nature of forums.

I was more active back here in the late 2000's, when Fram was universally known as the orange can of death. It probably will be known as that again in 5-10 years. Just how things go in forums.

I'm sticking with my Wix filters and Pennzoil Platinum. That combo has treated me well over the years.

Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646688
01/26/18 08:03 AM
01/26/18 08:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
ZZman Offline
ZZman  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,133
Michigan
Well many people want to run good oil or filters and not the "best". Price vs efficiency can be a consideration.


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646698
01/26/18 08:14 AM
01/26/18 08:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,413
In the Garage...
ls1mike Offline
ls1mike  Offline
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,413
In the Garage...
I have used all types of oil and filters. I have never had an oil related failure. I have blown up some Turbo Dodge stuff up at the track.
I ran 20W50 in some of them with good old Fram orange cans. Two of them well over 250,000 miles.
I think it gives people something to talk/argue about.
I am curious as to how many people have had an oil/oil filter related failure before.


Mike
00 Trans Am WS6 5.7 LS1
02 Silverado 2500HD 6.0
14 Caprice PPV 6.0
15 Malibu LTZ Turbo
12 Passport TT
Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646707
01/26/18 08:26 AM
01/26/18 08:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 82
USA
Hannibal Offline
Hannibal  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 82
USA
I think this question could be better answered by the admins. Here's my story...

I know a lot of people in the filter business. I am good friends with a few within the manufacturers. They're on here incognito. However they don't expose themselves for a few reasons.

First...this site is informative and helpful...however the main audience really gets lost in the weeds on specs and things like that. The time necessary to satisfy everyone on here would require a full time individual and that won't happen.

Second...there are huge misconceptions about a lot of core things that just aren't worth the hassle trying to fight to change perception. Most people don't have an open mind and therefore can be extremely hard to convince and it becomes the typical internet wizz contest. I see on here constantly where people get mad about how manufacturer XYZ won't post this spec or whatever. They won't because the average consumer doesn't understand that and really just wants to know that if the filter fits AND...it won't leak.

Third...the burden of proof is astronomical here. Some guys will blindly believe anything posted or will site marketing specs as truth. Others won't accept anything unless they have signed documentation from the Pres, VP and Engineering VP along with the 4548-12 multi pass test signed in blood.

I promise...these guys would love to interact here and tell you all the juicy stories...but they can't and won't because of the headaches it represents. Someone on here just posted confidential info from SOMS Tech on sales info...that should never have happened. They know who did it by the way and it just goes to show that there is no honor among thieves.

The aftermarket filter world is way crazier than you'd expect due to the importers and the race to the bottom. On here it's viewed as good "competition." That's true for the consumer, but the reason why Fram and Champ tried to stay married and the reason why Mann & Hummel is trying to put the Purolator/Wix marriage to bed is because the filter world is trying to eek out a living selling a product that most people want to complain about costing more than a $1.

I'll sum up this lengthy diatribe by saying that the filter world is very much aware of BITOG. I guarantee someone will make my point and challenge what I have written and that is fine...it's the internet, man...serious business. That's why calling the tech hotlines will still be your best options for official communications.

Last edited by wwillson; 01/26/18 11:28 PM. Reason: removed inaccuracy
Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646723
01/26/18 08:35 AM
01/26/18 08:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 884
California
mbacfp Offline
mbacfp  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 884
California
Great stuff. To the OP, I don't make decisions from one person on here. I have been using a particular filter on here because of research and posted specs. I stopped using another brand because of their non existent specs and unwillingness to provide it. I get it if they don't posted it, but should provide on request. I admit I am an ignorant consumer so the more info the better. For the record, I don't buy into the extreme bias on here about anything.


2014 F-550 PSD..........M1 Delvac ESP 5w-40 + OEM
2018 Dodge Charger SRT Hellcat
2012 Toyota Sienna LTD 3.5L V6
2003 Dodge Durango R/T 4x4 5.9L V8
Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646728
01/26/18 08:42 AM
01/26/18 08:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,633
The Old North State
Sayjac Offline
Sayjac  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,633
The Old North State
Afaik currently no filter companies advertise on this site. However as recognition of OP's point #1 and 'imo', one brand does get free advertising frequently under the guise of providing information to the OF subforum. It is what it is. However when that information crosses over either directly or through surrogates to criticizing competing brands sometimes with inaccurate and/or unverified (independently) information, that imo is crossing the line. And that has happened on more than one occasion 'in my observation'.

As for OP's point #2, generally speaking also based on my observation, point taken here. From experience now find it easiest just to completely avoid those discussions.

All that said, doesn't change what filter(s) I choose to use as I don't need OF subforum affirmation and can see through the [censored] posted. Might influence others though, idk.

Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: MParr] #4646745
01/26/18 09:00 AM
01/26/18 09:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,284
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,284
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: MParr
For any and all non-FRAM companies, I suggest recruiting someone to join this site to combat some of this stuff. That person needs to be better at PR than the local FRAM commander.

On the other hand there are people who in promote other filters as well and in those cases there is no technical basis for them to do so. Case in point is the MicroGreen filter, the reporting on their site for efficiency is downright silly, yet long and passionate posts are made here in support of them which are completely devoid of any efficiency testing results whatsoever.


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
Re: Why would any filter manufacturer advertise here? [Re: Kruse] #4646752
01/26/18 09:09 AM
01/26/18 09:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
goodtimes Offline
goodtimes  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
What aftermarket filter makers are after is volume sales, like getting on an Autozone or Walmart shelf, or an OE vendor contract. They would gain a little by advertising here, but how much? Advertising doesn't have to be factual, just convincing. They spent a lot of money on the box and paint. All these companies are operating to make money, only.

I don't know why people become Fram reps here. I have wasted a lot of money buying oil filters because of this place, that I know. My conclusion after some years is what I started out using for one car, the OE Toyota filters, I am going back to using OE Toyota filters. If I ever get rid of the others I bought. Big waste of money, probably over a $100 in filters I may never use.

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