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Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil #4537493
10/08/17 07:33 PM
10/08/17 07:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
Pennsylvania
arhncmh Offline OP
arhncmh  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
Pennsylvania
New member, first post. There may be other posts on this topic, but I couldn't find them.

I'm trying to quell some paranoia based on what I'm seeing in the drain pan when I change the oil in my wife's 2015 Corolla vs. what I see when I do the same on my 2017 Civic. Her engine uses a cartridge and when I look in the drain pan while changing the oil on her car, I search I can see very tiny particles in the bottom. It's easiest to see them when it's sunny and I'm emptying the drain pan into a jug for recycling.

Is this just the result of her car using a cartridge filter so the captured debris gets dumped into the drain pan, something you'd never see from a car that uses a canister filter?

Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: arhncmh] #4537502
10/08/17 07:38 PM
10/08/17 07:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
First off, welcome

You are correct, any small particles you see in the cartridge would be contained in the canister.

If you are concerned you could always have a UOA done to check.


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: arhncmh] #4537547
10/08/17 08:45 PM
10/08/17 08:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,745
Western S.C.
CR94 Online content
CR94  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,745
Western S.C.
Are those particles coming out of the cartridge housing, out of the crankcase drain hole, or (I hope!) from miscellaneous external dirt you've inadvertently knocked loose above the pan? It's possible there could be particles stopped by the filter that are too large to be stuck in the filter media, so they come out when you open the filter cap. They should be rare, though.
I haven't seen particles in the drained oil from my Prius, which uses the same filter as your Corolla. I do see tiny black particles trapped in pleats of the media of the cartridge.

Last edited by CR94; 10/08/17 08:47 PM.

2011 Toyota Prius now at 95K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: arhncmh] #4537568
10/08/17 09:17 PM
10/08/17 09:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 232
California
jj51702 Offline
jj51702  Offline
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 232
California
ok

Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: arhncmh] #4537609
10/08/17 10:37 PM
10/08/17 10:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 220
NY
DdDd Offline
DdDd  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 220
NY
It's the style of filter like others said. Not to worry, they get filtered right up again when they get sucked up through the oil pickup.

Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: Kuato] #4537661
10/09/17 05:01 AM
10/09/17 05:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: Kuato
First off, welcome

You are correct, any small particles you see in the cartridge would be contained in the canister.

If you are concerned you could always have a UOA done to check.


to check what?

Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: Ducked] #4537671
10/09/17 05:19 AM
10/09/17 05:19 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,231
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 31,231
NY
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Kuato
First off, welcome

You are correct, any small particles you see in the cartridge would be contained in the canister.

If you are concerned you could always have a UOA done to check.


to check what?


To check the condition of the oil and wear metals to see if there is anything out of the ordinary going on.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: arhncmh] #4537706
10/09/17 06:09 AM
10/09/17 06:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,429
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,429
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: arhncmh
I can see very tiny particles in the bottom. It's easiest to see them when it's sunny and I'm emptying the drain pan into a jug for recycling.


Like Glitter, correct?

It is normal.
Yes, it is very freaky to see.... it makes you think your engine is coming apart!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: arhncmh] #4537762
10/09/17 07:39 AM
10/09/17 07:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
I've never thought about this subject, but yes it does sound like catridges release stuff back into the drain flow, down through the oil pump, and into the sump when you open 'er up.
Iron maybe? A magnet would prove that. Also, I say use a GoldPlug magnetic drain plug to grab Fe. I see Fe fuzz on mine all the time, particles too small for the oil filter to get. An oil filter only traps particles larger than 10-50 microns, depending on oil filter media type and brand. Fram Ultra seems to trap the best.

Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: arhncmh] #4537836
10/09/17 09:29 AM
10/09/17 09:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 99
SE Florida
Powerglide Offline
Powerglide  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 99
SE Florida
My daughterís Ď95 Corolla has the same sediment in the bottom of the catch basin when I change the oil. Itís disconcerting for sure. But itís got 200k miles on it, runs and drives perfectly, gets 24-33 mpg and uses 1/2 quart of oil between changes (6-8k miles OCI). As a result, I donít give it a second thought after I close the hood.

Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: arhncmh] #4537839
10/09/17 09:32 AM
10/09/17 09:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
Pennsylvania
arhncmh Offline OP
arhncmh  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
Pennsylvania
Thanks to all for your responses/feedback to my question. Seems if I perform my next oil change on my wife's Corolla by following the steps below, I should be able to better understand my situation:

1. Only drain the contents of the oil pan into the receiving basin. If I see any of the fine "glitter" (great description, linctex) I've seen before, maybe I have a problem.

2. Empty the receiving basin & wipe clean, then remove the plastic housing covering the cartridge filter and drain the remaining oil into the basin. It seems this volume of fluid is where the "glitter" should be (retained behind the filter media. If I had a standard container-style oil filter, this is where the particles would be trapped & I normally wouldn't see.

By performing the above, hopefully I'll be able to confirm that the fine "glitter" particles I'm seeing are actually common, it's just that they get released into the waste oil collection basin instead of staying trapped within the oil filter due to my car's filter type.

Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: Powerglide] #4537841
10/09/17 09:35 AM
10/09/17 09:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline
bigj_16  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: Powerglide
My daughterís Ď95 Corolla has the same sediment in the bottom of the catch basin when I change the oil. Itís disconcerting for sure. But itís got 200k miles on it, runs and drives perfectly, gets 24-33 mpg and uses 1/2 quart of oil between changes (6-8k miles OCI). As a result, I donít give it a second thought after I close the hood.
Those E100 Corollas were bomb proof!

Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: arhncmh] #4538000
10/09/17 11:59 AM
10/09/17 11:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,745
Western S.C.
CR94 Online content
CR94  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,745
Western S.C.
Originally Posted By: arhncmh
... Seems if I perform my next oil change on my wife's Corolla by following the steps below, I should be able to better understand my situation:

1. Only drain the contents of the oil pan into the receiving basin. ...

2. Empty the receiving basin & wipe clean, then remove the plastic housing covering the cartridge filter and drain the remaining oil into the basin. It seems this volume of fluid is where the "glitter" should be (retained behind the filter media. ...
That's a reasonable plan. There still shouldn't be much "glitter," unless something is wearing abnormally rapidly. If you see it again, note its color, and whether it is attracted to a magnet or not.

Can you see glitter in the filter you removed? If some is coming out of the filter housing, then many smaller particles should still be on the filter surface.

Thanks!


2011 Toyota Prius now at 95K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: demarpaint] #4538508
10/09/17 07:53 PM
10/09/17 07:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Kuato
First off, welcome

You are correct, any small particles you see in the cartridge would be contained in the canister.

If you are concerned you could always have a UOA done to check.


to check what?


To check the condition of the oil and wear metals to see if there is anything out of the ordinary going on.


He knows he's got wear because he can see it. The relationship between the metals picked up by a UOA and overall wear is uncertain, so it wouldn't tell him anything very definitive.

Separating the sump and canister contents, as suggested above, just checks whether the visible particles make it through the filter, a check on gross filter performance. They probably don't, and it doesn't seem to tell you much else.

To learn much you'd have to quantify the wear particles in both the filter and the oil, a good trick if you can do it.

If you did it, you probably wouldn't have anything to compare it to, because...nobody does it (AFAIK)

So you either have to fund a non-trivial industrial research project, or stop worrying about it.


Last edited by Ducked; 10/09/17 08:07 PM.
Re: Canister vs. Cartridge oil change: should the oil [Re: arhncmh] #4538639
10/09/17 11:32 PM
10/09/17 11:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
http://dsportmag.com/the-tech/whats-inside-your-oil-filter/

Is it just me or are these debris-in-the-filter-pleats pictures obviously and ludicrously fake?

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