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Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem #4119996
06/09/16 09:20 PM
06/09/16 09:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 766
Northern Arizona
funflyer Offline OP
funflyer  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 766
Northern Arizona
Decided to start a new thread instead of adding my findings to some of the other threads concerning the supposed failures of the XG synthetic cartridge filters. My curiosity got the best of me after reading the below threads and I suspected that an undersized ID of the end caps might have contributed to or possibly caused the media to separate from them, either during installation or removal. That's exactly what I found with five new XG10358 cartridges. I purchased four from the net, checked another in a local store and found all to have the same issue. The picture of the housing cap center tube was blurry so I didn't include it but the tube OD measured 1.095" - 1.103".

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3434977/Fram_Ultra_FAILURE
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3411091/1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3930160

Here the filter is just started on the housing cap. It was very tight and I didn't try to push it any farther or I could have easily damaged the media.




Here are the specs from Fram's website. Notice the ID should be 1.108"



Here's the ID of the first of five I checked. The other four were almost exactly the same. Caliper showed 1.091" - 1.093"



Compared to the Wix filter. The Wix measured 1.112" and dropped right into the cover.




OEM Toyota filter measured @ 1.105".






[/b][b][/b][b][b][/b]

Last edited by funflyer; 06/09/16 09:21 PM.

2016 Prius 1.8L
2001 Tacoma 2.4L
1966 GTO 6.5L
2015 Cub Cadet
Honda CT70 (X6)
Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: funflyer] #4120009
06/09/16 09:34 PM
06/09/16 09:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,993
Chicago, IL
Brybo86 Offline
Brybo86  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,993
Chicago, IL
Call Fram and get a free filter


08 Honda Accord EX-L 2.4L M1 EP 0w20 145k
01 Kymco People 50
95 Lexus LS400 M1 AFE 0w30 193k
95 Yamaha Jog
Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: funflyer] #4120015
06/09/16 09:39 PM
06/09/16 09:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
goodtimes Offline
goodtimes  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
Good detective work and pictures. I think the Ultra is still on my list for canister filters, but the list of those even is getting smaller. Of your three for me at least, the last one is the best one. This is how copying and not getting it exact ends up. The Wix is a little too loose, the Ultra much too tight, The OE seems to be just right.

Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: funflyer] #4120027
06/09/16 09:50 PM
06/09/16 09:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
goodtimes Offline
goodtimes  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
Fram does list the spec pretty close to correct, must be the machine that makes the hole, or the plastic mold, is out of adjustment. That a number were measured is very good proof something is haywire.

Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: funflyer] #4120033
06/09/16 09:55 PM
06/09/16 09:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,260
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,260
PNW
The Fram's end cap ID looks to only be on the very lips of the end caps. If they are a bit flexible, and if lubed up with oil does that help the filter slip over the metal center tube?

Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: Brybo86] #4120048
06/09/16 10:08 PM
06/09/16 10:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 766
Northern Arizona
funflyer Offline OP
funflyer  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 766
Northern Arizona
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
Call Fram and get a free filter


Probably get more with the same issue. I won't speculate on whether Fram has a good quality management system in place or not but the customer should never be the one to find defective products.


2016 Prius 1.8L
2001 Tacoma 2.4L
1966 GTO 6.5L
2015 Cub Cadet
Honda CT70 (X6)
Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: ZeeOSix] #4120054
06/09/16 10:18 PM
06/09/16 10:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 766
Northern Arizona
funflyer Offline OP
funflyer  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 766
Northern Arizona
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The Fram's end cap ID looks to only be on the very lips of the end caps. If they are a bit flexible, and if lubed up with oil does that help the filter slip over the metal center tube?


The end caps are a hard plastic material with zero flex. Oil was no help. Even if someone manages to squeak one on the center tube, what happens when they try to remove it? What about the highly trained Jiffy Lube tech that removes the filter and the end stays in the housing cap? I can see someone easily leaving it in there and installing a new filter on top of it


2016 Prius 1.8L
2001 Tacoma 2.4L
1966 GTO 6.5L
2015 Cub Cadet
Honda CT70 (X6)
Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: funflyer] #4120059
06/09/16 10:22 PM
06/09/16 10:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,555
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,555
Idaho
I would buy the Yota filters.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: funflyer] #4120081
06/09/16 10:53 PM
06/09/16 10:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,191
VA
bvance554 Offline
bvance554  Offline
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,191
VA
The Pronto cartridges that I get for $1.83 each on Rockauto look better than both of those filters.

Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: funflyer] #4120099
06/10/16 12:36 AM
06/10/16 12:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,260
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,260
PNW
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The Fram's end cap ID looks to only be on the very lips of the end caps. If they are a bit flexible, and if lubed up with oil does that help the filter slip over the metal center tube?


The end caps are a hard plastic material with zero flex. Oil was no help. Even if someone manages to squeak one on the center tube, what happens when they try to remove it? What about the highly trained Jiffy Lube tech that removes the filter and the end stays in the housing cap? I can see someone easily leaving it in there and installing a new filter on top of it


If the end caps are hard plastic, then yes this could definitely be an issue on some vehicles if there's an interference fit on some vehicles.

funflyer - what vehicle were you measuring the metal center tube on?

Suggest emailing Jay (aka Motorking here) with a link to this thread so he can see it and pass along the info within Fram for possible improvements.

Here's his email: [email protected]

Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: funflyer] #4120255
06/10/16 07:08 AM
06/10/16 07:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
goodtimes Offline
goodtimes  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
Very clear reporting, Fram says 1.108" is the spec for the hole, but they made the hole 1.091". As was said.

Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: funflyer] #4120262
06/10/16 07:19 AM
06/10/16 07:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 400
Cincinnati
quint Offline
quint  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 400
Cincinnati
I recently did oil changes on my dads Corolla and my sisters Highlander using Ultra cartridges and both were very tight as well.


1993 240sx convertible
2001 Sequoia
2012 Mazda 2
2012 Mazda 3 Totaled 3/16/18, R.I.P
2017 Mazda 3
2017 Kia Rio
Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: goodtimes] #4120281
06/10/16 07:45 AM
06/10/16 07:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,816
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,816
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Very clear reporting, Fram says 1.108" is the spec for the hole, but they made the hole 1.091". As was said.


Exactly! Why should there be any extra work for the consumer when this should be a 'direct fit replacement'. Great detective work and bonus points for conducting this on more than one filter. In essence showing that this batch, at least, is defective.


18 Sportage LX: M1AP 5W-20 + M1-104A
13 SFS 2.0T: PP 10W-30 + XG9688
Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: funflyer] #4120292
06/10/16 07:59 AM
06/10/16 07:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
goodtimes Offline
goodtimes  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,120
Tennessee
Don't know what the oil inlet side looks like, but the OE will allow oil to flow into the pleats more directly instead of going around the end cap. Depends on how close the end cap is to the inlet base, if it could be an issue.

Re: Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem [Re: ZeeOSix] #4120323
06/10/16 08:33 AM
06/10/16 08:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 766
Northern Arizona
funflyer Offline OP
funflyer  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 766
Northern Arizona
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

If the end caps are hard plastic, then yes this could definitely be an issue on some vehicles if there's an interference fit on some vehicles.

funflyer - what vehicle were you measuring the metal center tube on?

Suggest emailing Jay (aka Motorking here) with a link to this thread so he can see it and pass along the info within Fram for possible improvements.

Here's his email: [email protected]


It's a 2016 Toyota Prius. Cap is p/n 15620-37010, same one used on Corolla, Matrix and Scion. I'll shoot Jay an email today.


Originally Posted By: bvance554
The Pronto cartridges that I get for $1.83 each on Rockauto look better than both of those filters.


Actually the Fram and Wix both are very well constructed. Their synthetic media is far superior to most others available. Are Pronto filters still Premium Guard? There might be a good reason they're dirt cheap.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1736036/1


2016 Prius 1.8L
2001 Tacoma 2.4L
1966 GTO 6.5L
2015 Cub Cadet
Honda CT70 (X6)
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