Fram Ultra Synthetic Cartridge Problem

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
And you wonder why Fram is going bankrupt? Apparently they cant even make a cartridge filter

I'll be the fish. Jay said Fram is very healthy. Champ labs was filing bankruptcy I believe. So now explain, being such a good fisherman, how that info translates into "And you wonder why Fram is going bankrupt?" Just a short explanation how you come to that would help the fish to understand your thinking.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: IllinoisSparky
I had just the opposite problem with a Fram Ultra cartridge that was TOO LOOSE.
I think the filter media is great, weld to the end is OK, but they seem to have a problem getting the inside diameter/seal correct.

Fram Cartridge loose



I wouldn't worry about the ID being a little loose as the seal is made on the ends while the filter is under spring tension. How loose was yours?

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: jk_636
And you wonder why Fram is going bankrupt? Apparently they cant even make a cartridge filter

I'll be the fish. Jay said Fram is very healthy. Champ labs was filing bankruptcy I believe. So now explain, being such a good fisherman, how that info translates into "And you wonder why Fram is going bankrupt?" Just a short explanation how you come to that would help the fish to understand your thinking.


Yeah, Champ labs was filing bankruptcy.

 

[Nate1979]

UCI is restructuring/filing for Chapter 11. Champ labs is part of UCI.

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

If the end caps are hard plastic, then yes this could definitely be an issue on some vehicles if there's an interference fit on some vehicles.

funflyer - what vehicle were you measuring the metal center tube on?

Suggest emailing Jay (aka Motorking here) with a link to this thread so he can see it and pass along the info within Fram for possible improvements.

Here's his email: [email protected]


It's a 2016 Toyota Prius. Cap is p/n 15620-37010, same one used on Corolla, Matrix and Scion. I'll shoot Jay an email today.


Originally Posted By: bvance554
The Pronto cartridges that I get for $1.83 each on Rockauto look better than both of those filters.


Actually the Fram and Wix both are very well constructed. Their synthetic media is far superior to most others available. Are Pronto filters still Premium Guard? There might be a good reason they're dirt cheap.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1736036/1




No they're not premium guard. They're actually a solid looking filter even after 8k. I'd like to see some long term tests or high milesge teardowns that showed any benefit of this 'superior media' compared to just regular media.

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

If the end caps are hard plastic, then yes this could definitely be an issue on some vehicles if there's an interference fit on some vehicles.

funflyer - what vehicle were you measuring the metal center tube on?

Suggest emailing Jay (aka Motorking here) with a link to this thread so he can see it and pass along the info within Fram for possible improvements.

Here's his email: [email protected]


It's a 2016 Toyota Prius. Cap is p/n 15620-37010, same one used on Corolla, Matrix and Scion. I'll shoot Jay an email today.


Originally Posted By: bvance554
The Pronto cartridges that I get for $1.83 each on Rockauto look better than both of those filters.


Actually the Fram and Wix both are very well constructed. Their synthetic media is far superior to most others available. Are Pronto filters still Premium Guard? There might be a good reason they're dirt cheap.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1736036/1




No they're not premium guard. They're actually a solid looking filter even after 8k. I'd like to see some long term tests or high milesge teardowns that showed any benefit of this superior synthetic media compared to just regular media.

 

[bvance554]

Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: bvance554

If the end caps are hard plastic, then yes this could definitely be an issue on some vehicles if there's an interference fit on some vehicles.

funflyer - what vehicle were you measuring the metal center tube on?

Suggest emailing Jay (aka Motorking here) with a link to this thread so he can see it and pass along the info within Fram for possible improvements.

Here's his email: [email protected]


It's a 2016 Toyota Prius. Cap is p/n 15620-37010, same one used on Corolla, Matrix and Scion. I'll shoot Jay an email today.


Originally Posted By: bvance554
The Pronto cartridges that I get for $1.83 each on Rockauto look better than both of those filters.


Actually the Fram and Wix both are very well constructed. Their synthetic media is far superior to most others available. Are Pronto filters still Premium Guard? There might be a good reason they're dirt cheap.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1736036/1




No they're not premium guard. They're actually a solid looking filter even after 8k. I'd like to see some long term tests or high milesge teardowns that showed any benefit of this superior synthetic media compared to just regular media.

 

[Bebop367]

Very good write up.
I measured Fram Ultra XG9972 cartridge filter before installing on 2010 Toyota Avalon after reading your post. All dimensions appeared OK.

At first start of the day the oil light goes out quick (normal) and then Blinks on for very short time and then goes out. I watch the oil light at all starts and this is not normal. I guess I going to remove and double check dimensions etc. May go back to OEM.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: Bebop367
Very good write up.
I measured Fram Ultra XG9972 cartridge filter before installing on 2010 Toyota Avalon after reading your post. All dimensions appeared OK.

At first start of the day the oil light goes out quick (normal) and then Blinks on for very short time and then goes out. I watch the oil light at all starts and this is not normal. I guess I going to remove and double check dimensions etc. May go back to OEM.



OEM is too easy in my opinion.

They are cheap from the dealer in quantity.

I've used FRAM Ultra and OCOD in the 9972 size in my Camry when I've got them "free" in an oil deal.

But if I"m actually buying an oil filter for any of my Toyotas, I'm at the dealer.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: Bebop367
Very good write up.
I measured Fram Ultra XG9972 cartridge filter before installing on 2010 Toyota Avalon after reading your post. All dimensions appeared OK.

At first start of the day the oil light goes out quick (normal) and then Blinks on for very short time and then goes out. I watch the oil light at all starts and this is not normal. I guess I going to remove and double check dimensions etc. May go back to OEM.


I can't see how the filter is causing this but who knows. Oil flow is going to be better with the synthetic media vs OEM. I suppose you'll see when you stick an OE filter back in. I took my calipers with me today and checked several XG9972's and all were good. The spec says 1.1" ID and all measured no smaller than 1.115".

 

[Bebop367]

It has quit doing the start up blink the last several days.....I going to leave it be unless the blink comes back.

I can't see how the filter could cause it either. Maybe the filter wasn't seated just right or something....who knows.....I would have never notice it years ago before this forum.

 

[funflyer]

Finally found some recently manufactured filters on the shelf so I will give an update. Looks like Fram's process hasn't changed and the filter ID is still undersized. I contacted Jay back in June or July about this problem and he seemed very interested in having this resolved. Here's one from 295 day and it measures 1.096. Oh well, maybe they'll get around to correcting these next year.

 

[sdude2k2000]

I just found this thread... very interesting! I'm currently using an Ultra on my 2015 Prius and I do not recall having the same experience as you when putting it on (granted this was back in April). I'll be doing my next change within a couple weeks - I will take pics of the used filter and post my findings here for all to see.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yep, something to checkout.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Yep, something to checkout.


Yep, watch out for those squirrels.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ LoL ... Yes, a few squirrels coming out of hibernation it seems.

 

[funflyer]

Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
I just found this thread... very interesting! I'm currently using an Ultra on my 2015 Prius and I do not recall having the same experience as you when putting it on (granted this was back in April). I'll be doing my next change within a couple weeks - I will take pics of the used filter and post my findings here for all to see.



Have you changed your oil since your reply? I'm interested to see how yours fits.

In the mean time, I stopped by the dealer last week, took an Ultra along to check a new housing for fit. The parts counter guy brought out two and the filter was way too tight in both. Then he grabbed a TRD Toyota synthetic filter, popped it right into a housing, asked why I don't just use it and commenced to bad-mouthing Fram. Comparing both filters, I really couldn't argue with him on much except the TRD filter being double the price of Fram.

 

[sdude2k2000]

I did change it yes. The Fram Ultra that was used for my OCI was a fine fit. Upon removing it however, I did not like the "feel" of the cartridge. Very little effort was required to break the media off the end caps... and after seeing some of the other filter failures from cartridge Ultras, I opted to switch back to a more traditional media filter (Mahle in this case). So unfortunately I cannot attest to the fit of current production filters. The Mahle was snug, but popped on fine with minimal effort. I considered a TRD filter, but I previously posted some images of one I had purchased and the quality control was awful in my opinion.

 

[LeakySeals]

Aside from the incorrect diameter.. the double layer synthetic media appears to "come unglued" from the plastic end cap canister filter during use??

 

[sdude2k2000]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Aside from the incorrect diameter.. the double layer synthetic media appears to "come unglued" from the plastic end cap canister filter during use??


To be clear - my filter DID NOT separate from the plastic end-cap during normal operation. After the filter was removed, I did a simple "crush test" using my hand. I simply squeezed with increasing pressure to see at what point the media would separate from the baseplate. This is something I do to test the strength of any oil cartridge after use (meaning - after it's been subjected to the heat and pressure of a normal OCI in an engine). The Fram Ultra separated way too easily for my liking compared to other filters I've used and done the same test on. With there being multiple other examples of cartridge style Fram Ultra failing due to media separation, this was concerning to me. As such - I made a personal decision not to use or recommend a Fram Ultra going forward for this application (Fram XG10358 - Toyota 1.8L). I'd also be hesitant to recommend them for any cartridge application based not only on what I've seen from others on this very board, but also for the "ease of separation" I witnessed with my own hands.

That being said - I do like them for spin-on applications as they use cupped metal end-caps and pot the media into it. I cut open one of my Fram XG2's from my Fusion and did the same "crush test"... the filter held up excellent.