Oil filters as fuel filters, yes or no?

[Filter guy]

There are people who have such a device. Try Racor division of Parker Filtration. Racor is hq'd in Modesto California and has a toll free number. Maybe CIMTEK has one as well.

Unless you're planning on low flow volumes the small can spin-ons are not optimum.

Most fuel transfer systems are a prefilter and use media that is a lot more open that any PH8A you may buy. The tighter the media, the more filters you will go through.

Plus if you are even thinking about transferring gasoline...you better get all the government approvals. There is a fire danger that you must address. Which is why diesel fuel water separators are to never be used on gasoline engines.

Just a simple piece of advice..

 

[Mr Nice]

FilterGuy,

I was at a gas station last week, I noticed a 'technician' replacing the filter on the gas pump.

It looked just like a large oil filter (FL-1A).....is there any difference between an oil filter.......and the filter they use for the gas pumps ??

 

[srivett]

Albin: Are you going to be filtering waste vegetable oil? You can use your used oil filters for that but you may go through them fairly quickly. A transport wrecker will have lots of two-stage fuel filter mounts for diesel kicking around.

Steve

 

[Gary Allan]

The threads tend to be different on fuel filters. They are also (typically) of a finer micron rating.


Here's some in the 3/4-16 thread:

P550385 = Donaldson
This is what it is in a WIX

Part Number: 33138
UPC Number: 765809331389
Principal Application: Toyota Corolla, Camry,Truck w/Diesel Eng.(84-87)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Fuel Filter
Service: Fuel
Height: 5.413
Outer Diameter Top: 3.730
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.500 2.270 0.115

P550679

Wix
Part Number: 33281
UPC Number: 765809332812
Principal Application: Fiat/Allis FL-9, FL-14 Dozers (10 Micron)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Fuel Filter
Service: Fuel
Media: Paper
Height: 6.605
Outer Diameter Top: 4.262
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200

P502177

Part Number: 33393
UPC Number: 765809333932
Principal Application: Hino, Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota Diesel Trucks (Secondary) (10 Micron)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Fuel Filter
Service: Fuel
Height: 4.069
Outer Diameter Top: 3.234
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.487 1.987 0.140

There are more. Just go to Donaldson and plug "fuel filter spin-on 3/4-16" into the search field up and to the right (the main section is a cross reference)...and it will puke out PLENTY of 3/4-16 fuel filters. You then go to the Wix site and plug them in to get the filters you want at any NAPA.

You gotta love the information age!!!

 

[unDummy]

Many oil filter have built in bypasses. It defeats the purpose if the fuel is bypassing filtration.

 

[Filter guy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by LT4 Vette:
FilterGuy,

I was at a gas station last week, I noticed a 'technician' replacing the filter on the gas pump.

It looked just like a large oil filter (FL-1A).....is there any difference between an oil filter.......and the filter they use for the gas pumps ??

---

Every service station you go to has a filter on it down below in the bottom half of the pump. You pull off the access panel to change them. There is probably a guage there to alert the station when to change the filter. Normally some attendant should check daily.

Cimtek and Petro Clear ( made by Champion Labs) are the top two brands that you will find.

Like I said, there are a number of government regs and you just can't plop any ol' filter on there. I believe the glues are different than oil filters, stronger shells, etc..

There are various sizes and diameters. Some are similar in size to a PH8A , others are 5" OD and up to 11" long.

There are also water absorbing media one's.

Basically as you pump your gas, the filter will prefilter what comes from the underground tank. As the filter plugs, your flow rate into your tank is slow. When it gets to slow, it's time for the station to change it. There are "service crews" that do the actual change. Not the minimum wage person taking your cash for lotto tickets inside.


Word to the wise..don't fill your car up with gas when you see the tanker truck there filling the stations tanks. When he does, all the "trash" that has settled in the bottom of the tank is stirred up. Even with the filter on the pump, your gas tank may get a bit more junk than it needs and your fuel filter can plug sooner rather than later...

btw..I've got both the Cimtek and the Petro Clear binders at work..

 

[Gary Allan]

CIMTEK

 

[Albin]

Further clarification for you:

- Design application is for vehicles (one diesel, one gas) each with 2 gravity-fed tanks.

- Design parameters are to use mostly off the shelf items so it can be replicated by anyone virtually anywhere. Therefore, it would use standard single and dual remote oil filter mounts, 3/8" or 1/2" (depending on application) NPT connections, use filters available almost anywhere (e.g. PH-8A or equivalent). 3/4"-16 appears to be the most used thread size for oil filters. Oil filters are specified due to availability anywhere (plus the constraints listed below).

- Use would be a low pressure/low volume application, max 10 psi & 2 gpm, and would be a pre-filtering/mixing operation, not primary fuel filtering. Essentially, it would get rid of the major crap before the fuel is sucked up by the pump and sent to the main/primary fuel filter(s).

- Water filtration/separation would be nice, but not at the expense of the above. This would be more important for the diesel application, however.

Now, given the above, what say you? [Sorry I wasn't able to expand on the original post, but I was at work and had only a minute to type the question.

Thanks,

Al

[ July 06, 2005, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Albin ]

 

[Albin]

I want to start desiging a fuel transfer fuel filtering system. The basic design will use single or dual-remote oil filter housing using 3/4"x16 threads (i.e. Fram PH-8A or equivalent). Since it will be non-vehicle specific, there is no fuel filter part number to look up or cross-reference to.

Since I didn't see any forum area for fuel filters, I'm posting this question here.

Can you use oil filters as fuel filters or not?

Furthermore, where can I find listings of filters by their micron filter size?

Thanks, and please feel free to move if there's a better place for it.

Thanks,

Al

 

[Slick17601]

I worked at a gas station in college and would change the filters on the pumps. I remember they were Fram but not with the normal numbering system. They were the size of a PH8A though.

 

[doitmyself]

Albin,

On top of the excellent advice given above:

Sounds like you're trying to re-invent the wheel!. Go to any NAPA store (Wix) or go to the Wix web site to see at least three different add on fuel filter assemblies. Two are for bulk tanks (4389 and 4027 Napa #). The other is for vehicles, #3123, 3418, and/or4309.

These are all designed for fuel, trap water, and are readily available anywhere Wix is sold (NAPA,Carquest).

[ July 07, 2005, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: doitmyself ]

 

[Filter guy]

All filter companies have filters for Bulk fuel filtering. Not just Napa -Wix. Those are mainly used by farmers who transefer fuel from a 55 gallon drum to their field equipment via portable devices.

As you say, it's been done before. They were avilable when I started with Champ in 1982.

Anyone who saw the news and the Ferrari going up in smoke in Washington State this week, should know there is a fire danger when fueling. Especially when transfering fuel from one source to another.


Albin, I took the road you were/are looking at some commercial oportunities and not something for yourself. If so you'll need to get all the proper regulatory approvals. And have a good insurance policy in case of accident, misuse, or other anomoly when someone uses whatever you come up with.

PS: I'll also add that no filter company will warranty an oil filter used in a fuel filtration application. So if you choose that route, any filter problems will be the responsibility of those who use the filter (or the company who recommends the use of oil filter for fuel filtration).

 

[Albin]

quote:

---

Originally posted by doitmyself:
Albin,

....

Sounds like you're trying to re-invent the wheel!. ....

---

Really?

Please show me an example of a 12 vdc fuel mixing/prefiltering system installed in any vehicle operated by throwing a switch. I'd like the fuel pump part numbers, filter mount part numbers etc. NOT just filter numbers. The system would take fuel from the bottom of the tanks, filter the fuel, then return the fuel to the tanks. I'll install valves to control fuel direction for mixing and/or tank maintenance and single tank filling.

Please, show me this system.

BTW: this isn't for commerical applications, I'm not planning to sell anything. However, when I do a mod to my vehicles, I write it up and post it for others to see to make it work on their vehicle or get their own ideas. Plus, the key attribute is to be able to get the filters virtually anywhere; if there are spin-on fuel filters (i.e. PH-8A-"LIKE") available, great.

Again, please show me a 12vdc operated prefiltering system on any vehicle that is not part of the main fuel feed to the engine.


Thanks,

Al

 

[Albin]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gary Allan:
The threads tend to be different on fuel filters. They are also (typically) of a finer micron rating.


Here's some in the 3/4-16 thread:

P550385 = Donaldson
This is what it is in a WIX

Part Number: 33138
UPC Number: 765809331389
Principal Application: Toyota Corolla, Camry,Truck w/Diesel Eng.(84-87)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Fuel Filter
Service: Fuel
Height: 5.413
Outer Diameter Top: 3.730
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.500 2.270 0.115

P550679

Wix
Part Number: 33281
UPC Number: 765809332812
Principal Application: Fiat/Allis FL-9, FL-14 Dozers (10 Micron)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Fuel Filter
Service: Fuel
Media: Paper
Height: 6.605
Outer Diameter Top: 4.262
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200

P502177

Part Number: 33393
UPC Number: 765809333932
Principal Application: Hino, Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota Diesel Trucks (Secondary) (10 Micron)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Fuel Filter
Service: Fuel
Height: 4.069
Outer Diameter Top: 3.234
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.487 1.987 0.140

There are more. Just go to Donaldson and plug "fuel filter spin-on 3/4-16" into the search field up and to the right (the main section is a cross reference)...and it will puke out PLENTY of 3/4-16 fuel filters. You then go to the Wix site and plug them in to get the filters you want at any NAPA.

You gotta love the information age!!!

---

The Donaldson site is not bad at all. I did what you suggested and did get a large number of responses to the 3/4"x16...." for the search term. However, it did come back with a number of filters that don't have 3/4"x16 threads, but did have "16" somewhere.

In any event, I did find a PH8A-type fuel filter: P/N P551605, gasket is the same, length is 7.2", sounds like it's pretty close, still have to check some other numbers and then crossreference to Wix, Motorcraft etc.

So, maybe a better question is: Are there easy-to-find PH8A-sized spin-on fuel filters available almost anywhere?

The auto parts stores I have around me are Advance Auto, Auto Zone and O'Reilly's, plus Walmart, and we have one Carquest. Closest NAPA is about 25 miles away, too far.


Thanks,

Al

 

[Gary Allan]

Oh ..just tape and paste the "fuel filter spin-on 3/4-16" into the search engine. That should eliminate most, if not all of the "16" references.


I would think that if you go outside the NAPA chain for "walk-in" type purchases ..you're gonna get rocked for price from anyone. I don't think that this is a common item for AA or any of the other chains. You could probably find them at a diesel type supply house, but then again, without a fleet account, I would imagine that you're well above the fuel costs of driving to NAPA. If you can mix up your order ..I'm sure that the site mentioned as a Wix distributor would be a cheaper alternative to the higher costs of buying locally. I think it was filter1.com

For diesel, I would consider using a regular FL1A type filter just to build the setup. It doesn't filter as good as the dedicated fuel filters but I don't see diesel fuel hurting anything. You've got lots of it in any diesel engine's sump after a while. That is, I would think that if diesel fuel attacked anything ..it would do it in a diesel lube setup as well. That's just my reasoning and not based on anything but my limited view.

After you get your feet wet and construct the thing you can then just list the spec'd filter. If you're selling this setup, aside from the cautions that FG advised you of, you can then buy enough to get them at an economical rate ..attaching your own disclaimer to the product that the end user use only spec'd filters.

That's what I sorta read into your post. You're basically building a packaged fuel transfer system. The actual filter isn't that important in the design end of it ..as long as they're available. That is, the function will probably be identical. It will just be the performance in filtration that will be different.


I played with a couple of the numbers and got a few hits on the Purolator site:

For example the WIX 33281 shows a F60023.

Purolator interchange guide. Now you should be able, at least, to talk turkey with the auto chains that deal with Purolator. They probably won't have it in stock ..but it will be a # that they can order.


btw- thanks for bringing this up. I've always wanted to put this on my oil burner ..but never got around to reseaching the filters. I think the small fabric filters are just too small. A nice dual spin-on would turn it into a finishing filter. I can then plumb the burner pump for recirculation instead of dead head operation. I think that will make it self priming (

) and eventually clean the entire tank ..if I add the right sludge removal agents. Currently I only have a 262 gallon capacity from empty in, what I believe is, a 275 gallon tank.

 

[ZR2RANDO]

What about
Tractor Supply, Agri-supply, Northern Tool, Harbor Freight, Southern States Farm Supply..etc?

 

[Gary Allan]

They all offer fuel filters. They appear to be good for gas, diesel, and alcohol, and sport a 10um rating..but they come in oddball threads. They aren't that expensive considering that you get the filter head and the filter for about $20 (+s&h) ..but the replacements are about $8 each.

So if he wants to abandon his requirement of a spin-on with a 3/4-16 thread ..then he's open for other installations. It appears that just about all of the fuel filters that are in 3/4-16 are Nissan or like Asian diesel OEM installations.

Then again, the price for a Wix or Purolator may be in that price range as well. If that's the case ..then there is no advantage to using the 3/4-16 head for the filters. It would be just as good to get the 1-12 (I think) thread head that those companies offer (McMaster, Northerntool, TSC, etc.).

 

[Big Jim]

The first dealership I worked in as a technician had a "gas boy" mini tanker that was used to remove fuel before working on a vehicle fuel tank. It was a hand pump sort of thing with a large tank (seems like it was about 50 gallons).

It had a FL-1 filter on it. It was plumbed in such a way that it always went through the filter in the same dirrection, if you were transferring to the car or from the car.

The filter was changed when it got plugged. Usually every few months, but more often when working with contaminated fuel.

 

[Filter guy]

Went and looked through the Petro Clear binder and the Cimtek one.

Here's a few tidbits.

With Petro Clear, they epoxy coat the shell on the inside " To eliminate oxidation which can cause pin-hole leaks from the inside". I could not confirm Cimtek do this from their binder, but I believe they do.

Both have Underwriters Laboratories certification.

They both offer filters that will remove water from fuel.

Both offer synthetic medias for Alcohol blended fuels ( up to 15%). Alcohol blended fuel has a "scouring effect" which may result in higher particulate counts---which means filter plugging.

They both offer filters that will detect and react to "phase separation" of alcohol blended fuels.

There are multiple fuel blends with percentages of methanol and alcohol, etc.

The standard PH8A type size filter used for dispensing pumps has a 1"-12 thread. Both offer adaptors for the filter-- 3/4" or 1" NPT inlet/outlet threads. Standard element micron ratings are 10 or 30. ( Petro Clears are rated at 75% efficiency)

10 micron used for "higher" levels of cleanliness for gasoline or diesel fuel.

30 micron is recommended for gasoline and heavier distillates such as diesel fuel and fuel oils.


Maximum flow rate is 15gpm.
---------------------------

Your standard PH8A or oil filter isn't made the same way..

 

[Pete C.]

An oil filter is made to filter oil. a fuel filter is made to filter either gasoline or diesel (rarely both fuels with the same filter).

All the major filter manufacturers can supply you with a sub-base setup, and the PROPER filters for your type of fuel.

Don't matter to me which brand you use, just that the filter fits the application.

But then again you'll probably screw an oil filter on a home made housing and wonder why it startes leaking the next day.

Now lets see... you want to recirculate the fuel, in some type of vehicle. To either clean it up, or if you've lost the filler cap, to keep it clean.
And you want to, obviously, have it permenantly mounted in that vehicle. The 12VDC pump is easy, any electric fuel pump plumbed to suck off the bottom of the tank, through the filter(s) and back to the top of the tank. By golly we just re-invented an external "kidney loop" filtering system. Change the type of filters to fuel duty, drain out the hydraulic oil, full with fuel and Taa Daa.

[ July 08, 2005, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Pete C. ]