This is on my Dodge, its the 4th time its happened in the 8 years ive had it, the 1st couple of times I was stumped, doing the math I figured out what brings the issue out. Yesterday my wife moved my truck forward a few feet and a few hours later moved the truck back, I knew it wouldnt start once I found out she moved it twice, sure enough it just cranked and cranked almost like free-wheeling with an occasional catch sound, playing with the throttle it finally catches and stumbles on a few cylinders for a few sec. than comes to life.Strong raw fuel smell, definitely flooded. I know the fix is (dont do that), but I dont understand why this vehicle does this, anyone ever run into a oddball issue similar to this? I could understand if it was carburated, but with computers and fuel injection it seems a little weird.
3 cold starts in a row = no start
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Runs rich at cold startup and the extra fuel washes the cylinders free of oil which causes it to lose compression. If you shut it down right away it stays in this low compression condition and thus the next startup won't catch until the extra long cranking creates some friction heat and the rings and cylinders don't allow quite so much blowby then it can finally create enough compression to start. All the while there is fuel being injected into the cylinders which needs to be burned off or it just goes into the oil sump.
I learned this was referred to as "LMS" (lawn mower syndrome).
I learned this was referred to as "LMS" (lawn mower syndrome).
I'm not a dodge fan but do these vehicles have leaky injectors??
My Hyundai does a similar thing. If it's cold and you start it for just a minute, it will be difficult to re-start it.
OVERKILL
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I've experienced this on both the Expedition and the BMW. I've told my wife never, EVER move the vehicle a few feet. If it gets started, it goes for a drive, PERIOD. Consecutive "cold start" cylinder wash-down/flooding events aren't good for an engine. With injection, the extra cold start enrichment programming dumps a lot more fuel into the cylinders. Fuel that in this case, doesn't get burned. Repeat that event and you have a flooded engine.
Originally Posted By: zanzabar
Runs rich at cold startup and the extra fuel washes the cylinders free of oil which causes it to lose compression. If you shut it down right away it stays in this low compression condition and thus the next startup won't catch until the extra long cranking creates some friction heat and the rings and cylinders don't allow quite so much blowby then it can finally create enough compression to start. All the while there is fuel being injected into the cylinders which needs to be burned off or it just goes into the oil sump.
Hilarious!
I learned this was referred to as "LMS" (lawn mower syndrome).
Runs rich at cold startup and the extra fuel washes the cylinders free of oil which causes it to lose compression. If you shut it down right away it stays in this low compression condition and thus the next startup won't catch until the extra long cranking creates some friction heat and the rings and cylinders don't allow quite so much blowby then it can finally create enough compression to start. All the while there is fuel being injected into the cylinders which needs to be burned off or it just goes into the oil sump.
Hilarious!
I learned this was referred to as "LMS" (lawn mower syndrome).
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Nyquist
Depending on the age of it, some of the late-model cars will shut the injectors off if you push on the gas pedal a bit if I recall correctly.
You hold it to the floor, and that disables the injectors. This has been a feature since EEC-IV in Ford's. Not sure about other makes.
Depending on the age of it, some of the late-model cars will shut the injectors off if you push on the gas pedal a bit if I recall correctly.
You hold it to the floor, and that disables the injectors. This has been a feature since EEC-IV in Ford's. Not sure about other makes.
Funny, Ive never had this happen on any of my GM vehicles ive ever owned,i can start them multiple times in a row and they'll run perfect every time.
the only time i had a problem was once i owned a 90 ciera with the 2.5 "iron duke" and it was so cold out it wouldn't turn over fast enought to start but the injectors(throttle body)kept dumping fuel in flooding it. Put the jumpers on and she lit right up ran good.
the only time i had a problem was once i owned a 90 ciera with the 2.5 "iron duke" and it was so cold out it wouldn't turn over fast enought to start but the injectors(throttle body)kept dumping fuel in flooding it. Put the jumpers on and she lit right up ran good.
Dodge still uses speed density fuel injection so in all reality it's not much better than a carb.
My hemi starts not wanting to stay running at -30. This morning I started it twice before it would stay running.
I've learned,here in the prairie cold anyways,that if you are going to start it you take it for a drive and get everything hot.
I've always be a start,get in and drive,kinda guy however my hemi doesn't seem to like that ritual. It bucks and stumbles until heat starts registering on the temp gauge.
Now I've learned to let it warm up for 20 minutes before going anywhere. It runs better that way.
I easily spend 12 hours a day in my truck,so 20 minutes of warm up really doesn't affect my fuel consumption since my fuel bill is easily 400 a week.
If your gonna start it drive it. Just starting and sitting will cause condensation and water plus negative temps isn't good.
My hemi starts not wanting to stay running at -30. This morning I started it twice before it would stay running.
I've learned,here in the prairie cold anyways,that if you are going to start it you take it for a drive and get everything hot.
I've always be a start,get in and drive,kinda guy however my hemi doesn't seem to like that ritual. It bucks and stumbles until heat starts registering on the temp gauge.
Now I've learned to let it warm up for 20 minutes before going anywhere. It runs better that way.
I easily spend 12 hours a day in my truck,so 20 minutes of warm up really doesn't affect my fuel consumption since my fuel bill is easily 400 a week.
If your gonna start it drive it. Just starting and sitting will cause condensation and water plus negative temps isn't good.
We had an 04 Wrangler that would do this.
If we moved it to let someone out of the driveway and shut it off, it wouldn't start without a lot of cranking and a battery charter.
The solution was to let it idle for 15-20 minutes after letting someone out of the driveway.
Typical Chrysler garbage, I knew someone out there had to have the issue as well.
Apparently Chrysler engineers aren't smart enough (or they cheapened out too much) to figure out how to accomodate for the vehicle running for a minute or two.
They switched the computer system at one point (different SAE bus and all) around 03 or 04 - our 01 wrangler and my 00 Cherokee did not / do not have the problem.
If we moved it to let someone out of the driveway and shut it off, it wouldn't start without a lot of cranking and a battery charter.
The solution was to let it idle for 15-20 minutes after letting someone out of the driveway.
Typical Chrysler garbage, I knew someone out there had to have the issue as well.
Apparently Chrysler engineers aren't smart enough (or they cheapened out too much) to figure out how to accomodate for the vehicle running for a minute or two.
They switched the computer system at one point (different SAE bus and all) around 03 or 04 - our 01 wrangler and my 00 Cherokee did not / do not have the problem.
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My Kia is occasionally slightly more difficult to start in the wintertime if I move it in and out of the driveway, but nothing too extreme. Just a little more cranking, maybe 3-4 seconds worth. It's hard to avoid short moving events around here because I have a 1 car driveway and garage, so sometimes cars just have to move.
OTOH, the Toyota always lights off fast in cold weather whether it's been moved 2 feet or 200 miles. It's hot weather that the Yota doesn't like, it seems to always take a bit more cranking in the summer whereas I barely have to turn the key in the Kia when it's hot out.
OTOH, the Toyota always lights off fast in cold weather whether it's been moved 2 feet or 200 miles. It's hot weather that the Yota doesn't like, it seems to always take a bit more cranking in the summer whereas I barely have to turn the key in the Kia when it's hot out.
JHZR2
Staff member
Not trying to hijack, but our friends 11 CRV had four failed starts in a row last week. I figured it was a weak battery given that it was small and over 2 years old.
But the charging system and battery were strong, so I'm interested in this thread.
But the charging system and battery were strong, so I'm interested in this thread.
The short runs are not allowing the plugs to burn off the extra fuel and fouling the plugs. The trick is to hold the gas pedal to the floor then crank it.
It is called at home car wash syndrome. If you take out the car to wash it and then put it back in the garage, the car would be difficult to restart next day. This scenario is common enough so that there is a name associated with it.
I only had my focus not start once. It was about 45 degrees, sitting overnight. Tried for an hour ... not sure why it wouldn't start.
When it did start, didn't smell like it was flooded or anything and ran perfect. Never had the problem again.
When it did start, didn't smell like it was flooded or anything and ran perfect. Never had the problem again.
My 2005 CR-V does this every once in awhile. So did my 2001 Civic. However, it's only after it's fully warmed up and driven for awhile.....I have to goose the throttle to get it to catch.
I googled home carwash ... apparently it's very common with VW and Audi.
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In the event it should happen again, I will try holding it to the floor before cranking, hopefully that will get it started easier, thanks for the input guys, appreciate it - I now know, im not alone....
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