Mazda's new propriety 0W-20 GF-5 with Moly

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Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: DBMaster

I have the PDS for Ultimate and the PP of the 5w30 is -54*F with a CCS, cP of 2325@-25*C and the 10w30 is -50*F with a CCS, cP of 2425@-20*C. I would be very surprised if these are anything other than PAO syns.

This clearly off topic but since you brought it up
the latest PDS figures (April 2011) for PP 5W-30 are:
PP -42C, CCS 3860cP @-30C
For PP 10W-30:
PP -39C, CCS 3920cP @-25C
These are very good figures for a GP III based oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
I called my local dealer to get a price on a case. He confirmed that list is $7.95/qt and when I asked for a case discount quickly offered $6.76 but would go no lower. He had none in stock as they buy theirs in bulk.


What dealership was this at? I'm in Indiana too.

My fairly local Fort Wayne Mazda dealership quoted me $8.75/quart. When I asked him for a case price, he said they didn't discount it beyond that. I told him that anytime I purchased oil from a dealership before, there was always a discounted price for a case, and he said "they" didn't do that.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: DBMaster

I have the PDS for Ultimate and the PP of the 5w30 is -54*F with a CCS, cP of 2325@-25*C and the 10w30 is -50*F with a CCS, cP of 2425@-20*C. I would be very surprised if these are anything other than PAO syns.

This clearly off topic but since you brought it up
the latest PDS figures (April 2011) for PP 5W-30 are:
PP -42C, CCS 3860cP @-30C
For PP 10W-30:
PP -39C, CCS 3920cP @-25C
These are very good figures for a GP III based oil.


CATERHAM; he was using the PP abbreviation as "pour point" in relation to the OLD Amoco Ultimate oil (I wonder who actually blended/manufactured this stuff??), and that it MUST HAVE at least some PAO in the basestock mix given that pour point, NOT as an abbreviation for Pennzoil Platinum.
wink.gif
 
Since a case discount was mentioned earlier I simply asked over the phone and was quoted the $6.56/qt price. When I got there I said that, actually, fifteen quarts would give me three oil changes so the parts lady sold me the extra three at the same per quart price. With many years of synthetic oil experience I figured that M1 AFE would be fine, but for that price I could "splurge" on the actual oil that Mazda recommends for the engine. You know that we are really reaching when we are looking for incrementally better synthetic oils. Not too long ago it was thought that ANY synthetic (of any type) was MORE than adequate for any car engine. I guess the old Amsoil claims of better fuel economy were true after all. With CAFE requirements even a tiny increase is enough for a manufacturer to spec syn oil.
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: DBMaster

I have the PDS for Ultimate and the PP of the 5w30 is -54*F with a CCS, cP of 2325@-25*C and the 10w30 is -50*F with a CCS, cP of 2425@-20*C. I would be very surprised if these are anything other than PAO syns.

This clearly off topic but since you brought it up
the latest PDS figures (April 2011) for PP 5W-30 are:
PP -42C, CCS 3860cP @-30C
For PP 10W-30:
PP -39C, CCS 3920cP @-25C
These are very good figures for a GP III based oil.


CATERHAM; he was using the PP abbreviation as "pour point" in relation to the OLD Amoco Ultimate oil (I wonder who actually blended/manufactured this stuff??), and that it MUST HAVE at least some PAO in the basestock mix given that pour point, NOT as an abbreviation for Pennzoil Platinum.
wink.gif


I see.
BTW those Amoco CCS figures are measured at a 5C higher temp' than they should be for a 5W and 10W oil. That a lone will make the spec's impossible to compare.
 
The Amoco Ultimate I used in the early 90's was 20W-50 "Racing" oil. This goes back to the heavy advertising for Castrol 20W-50 from the late 80's. I do not recall having any issues going back to 10W-30 after 2-3 years of using the heavier stuff, but I "felt" weird about it. Isn't it interesting how psychology enters into oil choices? As I said, I got it on the cheap from Target. It was on clearance and I called the store manager to ask how much lower it could be priced if I bought all they had. I guess it didn't hurt the engine as I got my absolute best fuel economy numbers when running that oil. Remember this was back before reformulated gasoline. I was able to attain 35mpg out of the 89 Accord LXi that was EPA highway rated at 28. The engine's valve train had nothing hydraulic in it - totally solid. At 355,000 miles it still returned fuel economy that was as good as it was in 1995 when we first switched over to RFG.

Kind of makes me think that engine design might have more to do with longevity than oil choice. I know! That is sacrilege for BITOG.
 
I just picked up 5 qts today at the dealer. I will run a VOA and skip the TBN and replace it with KV40 to find out what the deal is if anyone is interested.
 
Originally Posted By: DanMiller
I found on this link

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?63516-mazda-s-0w20

Entry #15 by zzz3 That suggests the Mazda 0W20 is from Idemitsu and Bottled by Petro Canada if true it is another good oil at a great price. Mazda Part number MAZSY02, 410-365

I don't think that's true, I believe it's the Petro-Canada 0W-20.
The Honda/Acura Canada 0W-20 is packaged in Idemitsu bottles at the Idemitsu plant in Illinois and that's how it's shipped up here. The same for Subaru and Mitsibushi.
It wouldn't make any sense for Idemitsu to ship it up here in bulk to be packaged by a competing oil company just for Mazda Canada.
 
Does anyone have an opinion as to whether this would be a significantly better choice (or just similar but different) to the Pennzoil Ultra I currently use in our 2010 Mazda 6i Touring. I already have my PU for the next oil change, but I'm not opposed to trying Mazda's new improved concoction.
 
Yes, please run the VOA. Save the $10 for TBN, it is rated at 8.93 by ILA.

From an ILA rep regarding the GF-5 products:

+The Idemitsu 0W-20 and Mazda 0W-20 are not the same.
+The Idemitsu product does not contain moly.
+The Mazda product does contain moly.
+Mazda uses the Genuine Oil for Factory Fill in Japan.
+Mazda uses the genuine Oil for warranty work in the US.

When I pressed him on the moly content, stating that we liked the rebranded GF-4 oil because it tested 600+ppm moly, he said:

"We are not allowed to share such information, even though you could have the oil analyzed and get the number. Suffice to say that if you were satisfied with the GF-4 product, you will be satisfied with the Genuine Mazda with Moly."
 
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Indydriver, on that 2010 MSDS of the Mazda oil, it contained 6 pages. Does it not say somewhere whether it's SM, SN or GF-4 or GF-5?
Another option is to contact the Idemitsu plant directly and request a copy of both the GF-4 and GF-5 Mazda oils. I've done it myself in the past on the Honda oils and the Subaru oils.
Sometimes they will comply, sometimes they will ask that you have the Dealer request the info.
Your local Mazda dealer should be able to get the MSDS info for both oils without any trouble.
 
The MSDS does not identify API or GF. Since then, they sent me their internal "Specification Sheets" for GF-5 Mazda and Idemitsu 0W-20. Unfortunately, they don't provide as much info as a typical PDS, just showing:

Appearance/Room Temperature
Cold Crank Simulator/-35C ASTM D5293
Density/15C ASTM D4052
KV/100C ASTM D445
Total Base Number/HCLO4 ASTM D2896

I've probably a out worn out my welcome pestering these folks. Don't you think the VOA will fill in the blanks of what we want to know about this oil? I'm hoping it's the uber-moly successor to TGMO GF-4.
 
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Okay, I will fill it up and ship it out to them. This is my first analysis so ....any tips for directions on how to do this? Shipping, written notes? Any special things I need to know basically.

I have a Blackstone kit FYI
 
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Originally Posted By: asharris7
Okay, I will fill it up and ship it out to them. This is my first analysis so ....any tips for directions on how to do this? Shipping, written notes? Any special things I need to know basically.

I have a Blackstone kit FYI


Sorry, The instruction Booklet was NOT in the kit. I had to look it up online. Ok, It is packed up and ready to be mailed tomorrow. I did not get TBN but I did ask to do the KV40. I included my email so they can email the results to me. I'll let you guys know the results soon enough!
 
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