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#2654829 - 06/15/12 07:05 AM Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000?
Gebo Offline


Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 1096
Loc: VA
My Owners Manual says to use 10W-30 in my 2004 Honda S2000. I figured that was old data until I went by Honda Dealership to get the special OEM Oil Filter (PCX) that is specifically designed for S2000 and see ALL S2000's are supposed to use 10W-30?

Why? Can anyone explain by a 5W-30 is not recommended? Out of all the Honda vehicles I saw on this chart in the Honda Dealership, the only one with a 10W-30 recommendation was the S2000?
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#2654845 - 06/15/12 07:30 AM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: Gebo]
NateDN10 Offline


Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 1661
Loc: Rochester, NY
Is the required oil conventional? Often conventional 10W-30s require less viscosity index improver polymers, and are thus less likely to shear in service, than 5W-30 conventionals. With synthetics, this is largely not an issue.
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#2654856 - 06/15/12 07:45 AM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: Gebo]
Gebo Offline


Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 1096
Loc: VA
Didn't ask or see whether they recommended synthetic or Dino. Assuming Dino.
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#2654879 - 06/15/12 08:21 AM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: Gebo]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 14488
Loc: Top of Virginia
I'm sure that Honda is assuming that conventional oil will be used, or is at least allowing for that possibility. A conventional 10W-30 is generally more shear-stable than is a conventional 5W-30, and I'd reckon that that's why the 10W-30 recommendation is made. That engine is their only engine that revs to 9,000 rpm or higher, so they likely wanted the extra stability that the 10W-30 grade provides.
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#2654939 - 06/15/12 09:59 AM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: Hokiefyd]
Corvette Owner Offline


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1676
Loc: Waldorf, Maryland
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I'm sure that Honda is assuming that conventional oil will be used, or is at least allowing for that possibility. A conventional 10W-30 is generally more shear-stable than is a conventional 5W-30, and I'd reckon that that's why the 10W-30 recommendation is made. That engine is their only engine that revs to 9,000 rpm or higher, so they likely wanted the extra stability that the 10W-30 grade provides.


I agree, I'm even surprised they didn't specify a heavier weight, probably they didn't because of fuel mileage considerations.

BTW, aren't most Honda's spec'ed for 5W-20 weight oil? My son's 2001 Honda Civic is.


Edited by Corvette Owner (06/15/12 10:01 AM)
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#2654981 - 06/15/12 10:45 AM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: Gebo]
wings&wheels Offline


Registered: 12/05/03
Posts: 426
Loc: New England, USA
Does the 2004 S2000 manual also indicate that a synthetic 5w-40 may be used in extreme conditions or similar language? My 2001 did and I believe Honda spec's 5w-40 for the ROW.

I always used Redline 5w-40 in mine, while it may not have made much of a difference it was comforting when I was playing around w/ the 9k redline.

w
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#2654989 - 06/15/12 10:58 AM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: wings&wheels]
Gebo Offline


Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 1096
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: wings&wheels
Does the 2004 S2000 manual also indicate that a synthetic 5w-40 may be used in extreme conditions or similar language? My 2001 did and I believe Honda spec's 5w-40 for the ROW.

I always used Redline 5w-40 in mine, while it may not have made much of a difference it was comforting when I was playing around w/ the 9k redline.

w


I don't have the manual...
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#2655021 - 06/15/12 11:34 AM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: wings&wheels]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10133
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
NateDN10 and Hokiefyd are correct.

Originally Posted By: wings&wheels
Does the 2004 S2000 manual also indicate that a synthetic 5w-40 may be used in extreme conditions or similar language? My 2001 did and I believe Honda spec's 5w-40 for the ROW.

I always used Redline 5w-40 in mine, while it may not have made much of a difference it was comforting when I was playing around w/ the 9k redline.w

Yes Honda recommended 5W-40 for cold temperature starting not high temperature protection.

RL 5W-40 with it's HTHSV of 4.6cP is effectively a very heavy 50wt oil, actually heavier than M1 15W-50 at operating temp's and therefore massively heavier than necessary for the S2000 engine. I'd be surprised if the oil pump ever gets out of by-pass mode at high rev's.
A suitable RL oil choice would be their 0W-30.
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#2655061 - 06/15/12 12:17 PM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: Gebo]
HTSS_TR Offline


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 19528
Loc: Lake Forest, CA
Honda recommends conventional 10W30 and synthetic is allowed. 5W40 is recommended for colder climate.

Honda developed/tested the S2000 engine in the late 1990's, conventional 5W30 wasn't as shear stable as of 10W30, therefore they recommend 10W30.
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#2655093 - 06/15/12 12:53 PM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: HTSS_TR]
Gebo Offline


Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 1096
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Honda recommends conventional 10W30 and synthetic is allowed. 5W40 is recommended for colder climate.

Honda developed/tested the S2000 engine in the late 1990's, conventional 5W30 wasn't as shear stable as of 10W30, therefore they recommend 10W30.


I understand but they still made the s2000 in 2009 and they still recommend 10w-30. I can't believe Honda is unable to keep up to date with the changes in oil formulation.
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#2655101 - 06/15/12 01:00 PM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: NateDN10]
dave1251 Offline


Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 8360
Loc: Maricopa, AZ
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Is the required oil conventional? Often conventional 10W-30s require less viscosity index improver polymers, and are thus less likely to shear in service, than 5W-30 conventionals. With synthetics, this is largely not an issue.


Which synthetics? The only 5W30 I have seen in service that does not shear into the 20 grade range is Red Line. I have seen some UOA's were Amsoil SS has sheared and oxidized back into the 30 grade range but not too many.
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#2655109 - 06/15/12 01:07 PM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: Gebo]
HTSS_TR Offline


Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 19528
Loc: Lake Forest, CA
Originally Posted By: Gebo
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Honda recommends conventional 10W30 and synthetic is allowed. 5W40 is recommended for colder climate.

Honda developed/tested the S2000 engine in the late 1990's, conventional 5W30 wasn't as shear stable as of 10W30, therefore they recommend 10W30.


I understand but they still made the s2000 in 2009 and they still recommend 10w-30. I can't believe Honda is unable to keep up to date with the changes in oil formulation.

To change oil viscosity from conventional 10W30 to anything else, they have to do complete test and submit the result to EPA. That may cost a lot of money, since the sale volume of the S2000 was so low, it didn't make sense for them to spend money on the test.
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#2655127 - 06/15/12 01:30 PM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: Gebo]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 8488
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
10w30 also has a lower HOACK volatility rating, which may have some bearing on theirs oil choice. 5w30 is not a miracle oil that many think it is.


Edited by Eddie (06/15/12 01:31 PM)
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#2655216 - 06/15/12 03:03 PM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: dave1251]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10133
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Is the required oil conventional? Often conventional 10W-30s require less viscosity index improver polymers, and are thus less likely to shear in service, than 5W-30 conventionals. With synthetics, this is largely not an issue.


Which synthetics? The only 5W30 I have seen in service that does not shear into the 20 grade range is Red Line. I have seen some UOA's were Amsoil SS has sheared and oxidized back into the 30 grade range but not too many.

No one said a typical GP III based 5W-30 synthetic didn't shear and a 10W-30 dino will also shear. It's just that a 5W-30 dino could shear to an unacceptable viscosity level.


It's the resultant viscosity that matters
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74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
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94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2655245 - 06/15/12 03:28 PM Re: Why 10W-30 In a Honda S2000? [Re: Gebo]
ksp7498 Offline


Registered: 02/06/12
Posts: 73
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Also, the s2000 was a specialty car that sold in small numbers to people that were generally automotive enthusiasts. The engines were not used in any other car. It simply wan't worth the time and money for honda to re-certify the F20C/F22C engines on other oils as time passed. Same reason the ford gt500 calls for 5w-50. Does it really need it? Probably not. But it's a small volume car with a unique engine that's designed to be driven very hard, so they specify something that's going to survive anything you can throw at it.

Plus the F20C/F22C are known to consume lots of oil (just like all 90's honda vtecs seem to) so that's probably why they chose 10w instead of 5w.


Edited by ksp7498 (06/15/12 03:28 PM)

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