Inching closer to a new car: E60 M5 or E92 M3

[dparm]

I got super-lucky in that a local CarMax suddenly had both an E92 M3 and an E60 M5. Took a few hours this morning to head over and drive both to see if I'm really ready to sell the S4.


I drove the 2008 M5 first. It had the 6-speed manual (I wanted the SMG) and about 32k miles and they wanted $46k for it. Dark blue metallic with black interior & walnut trim.

The M5 is very roomy and feels upscale inside. It does feel a tad dated since the platform originates from 2003. Still, very upscale and everything felt and looked nice. Good leather, nice tactile feedback from the switches, etc. It was holding up very well. The iDrive is not as infuriating as people make it out to be though if I were driving and trying to do things it could be tricky; I am a tech/gadget guy anyways so maybe that's why I didn't mind it?

The 5.0L V10 is surprisingly "noisy" at idle when you're outside the car. Clarkson was right: it does sound a bit like a diesel. The powerplant is VERY smooth and when you're inside you can hardly tell it's running.

I ran it in all the different modes for the suspension, throttle, and power output. In the more docile modes (400hp, soft suspension, etc) it drives like a normal 5 series. Quiet, compliant, easy to drive. In the sportier modes, it absolutely lived up to expectations. Made all the right noises, had some serious hustle, and generally behaved as if it were not a 3800lb car. The split-personality thing really makes me think this would make a good daily driver. Totally smooth and quiet at 20, 40, 60, even 80mph.



Right on the showroom floor they had a gorgeous 2009 M3 coupe in white. Absolutely flawless condition with around 30k and an asking price of $47k. All options except navigation (bummer). It had the DCT.

Right away you know it's a smaller car. It's also a simpler and more spartan vehicle. Fewer buttons, simpler layout, less to be distracted by. It doesn't feel cramped but you certainly know it's small and low to the ground. Visibility was still very good. Better seats though I wonder if the extreme bolstering will be tiring on longer drives.

The M3 drove very very well. The V8 is responsive and docile at low speeds. I found the DCT to be imperceptible -- impressive to say the least. Over expansion joints and rough pavement, the ride was composed but still very hard. I got lucky in that there was road construction adjacent to the dealership and was able to take both cars on the bad pavement. The M3 just doesn't do well on that kind of surface.

On the highway onramp, neither I nor the salesperson were prepared for the raw power. The acceleration in second and third gears (in S6 mode) was incredible. The power was linear and with the ultra-fast gear changes you are doing 90 before you know it. But once you back off the throttle it is a good highway cruiser.

The M3 is a purpose-built sport coupe. It is far more visceral and raw than the M5 and does not suffer from any split-personality disorder. It's fast, rides hard, and is built for speed.



I'm really leaning towards the M5 since it gives you about 95-99% of the M3 performance with none of the drawbacks. The interior is a bit more dated and complicated but I feel like I can deal with that compared to an overly-harsh ride and a lack of a nav system.

Still, I think I need to sleep on it for a while and see if any other cars pop up. I was hoping for an M6 since it might be the best compromise between the M3 and M5.

I recommend anyone who is serious about cars check out the M3 and M5. Amazing machines for sure and I know I'll be happy with either. Hopefully I won't miss the 4WD too much...

 

[SteveSRT8]

I have seat time in both. I would easily pick the M3 over the M5 without a second thought.

Rare to find a M5 without the SMG box. I can't believe you liked the DCT in the M3. My track mates is really rough and jerky, he's had a lot of issues with it.

But I just love the dynamics of the M3. That may be one of the sweetest V8's made.

 

[OVERKILL]

Your opinions regarding the difference between the M3 and M5 mirror my own. However owning an older M5, it isn't as "numbed" as the E90.

If you plan on driving a lot, choose the M5. The better ridge and roomier interior are worth the tiny performance penalty.

 

[raaizin]

The 3 series is too small for me for every day. I would see if you can find a clean 550i. With sport pkg and right options it can be very nice

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I have seat time in both. I would easily pick the M3 over the M5 without a second thought.

Rare to find a M5 without the SMG box. I can't believe you liked the DCT in the M3. My track mates is really rough and jerky, he's had a lot of issues with it.

But I just love the dynamics of the M3. That may be one of the sweetest V8's made.




If all you care about is the performance, I agree the M3 is the winner. But on a daily basis the M3 seems like it might get tiring.

 

[d00df00d]

If I were to buy a modern M car, it would be the M3, but only because I don't like the engine in the 1M. I think the 3-Series -- let alone the 5-Series -- is big enough that I wouldn't want one unless I expected passengers on a frequent basis. Guess I can't speak for everyone.

That said, if you really did find the M5 that much more comfortable, I think you're right to lean toward it for a daily driver. The only caveat I'd offer is that if you're looking for an SMG M5: it still requires careful throttle technique for smooth shifts in the mild shift modes, and generates a LOT of shift shock in the faster shift modes.

 

[dparm]

The M3's DCT in S6 was pretty hard. In the lower modes it was imperceptible, like I said.

 

[jaj]

I can't speak to the benefits or issues of the M5 - I never liked the shape of the E60 so it was never an option for me. I had one of the first E92 M3's, an M6 because the DCT came out later, and it was a superb automobile.

It is a bit small inside, but the handling is great and the power is amazing. Overall it has the most refined engine of its generation and the best chassis and engine computers that BWM ever made. The M5 is half a generation behind and you can tell when you study the mechanicals - leak-prone high pressure VANOS in the M5 became low pressure VANOS in the M3, clunky SMG became smooth DCT, and so on.

That said, they're both fantastic cars and if you want comfort the M5 can't be beat. It'll pass anything on the highway except a gas station ;-)

 

[dparm]

Well said, jaj. The M5 does feel a bit more dated despite only being one year older.

I guess I need to drive the M3 again and see if the ride quality is a deal-breaker versus the M5. The one I drove also did not have NAV which is a deal-breaker. Fortunately I am not in a hurry to buy something.

 

[hattaresguy]

I wouldn't buy a late model high end car from Carmax or any used car lot for that matter.

Your getting auction cast off's from the BMW dealer. Plus you can't get them CPO with a good warranty.

Good place to comparison shop, but I would head to a main BMW dealer and buy a CPO M3/5 when you figure out what you want.


Remember with late model cars, main dealers keep the cream and auction off the rest.

Oh and for $10k-$15k or so more you can buy a brand new 550I with a stick and sport package, with full warranty and everything covered for the first 4 years. Last time I was at the BMW dealer they had a new 2011 550I with quite a few options for $62k sticker. Probably could chew them down a bit on an 11, since the 12's came out.

 

[dparm]

Carmax's extended warranties are very competitively priced, but you make a good point. I have a Manheim login that I've been checking as well.

 

[hattaresguy]

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/cpo/default.aspx

With a 5 year old M5 I'd want a pretty stout warranty. Also I would insist on a PPI, not one done by Carmax.

In my experience the best way to buy a late model high end car is to first figure out exactly what you want, and what its worth. Than just keep searching the CPO listings within the distance you are willing to travel. Wait a bit and it will pop up.

 

[dparm]

CPO is going to be more expensive though. In many instances it's cheaper to get a third party warranty (which has flexible terms, deductibles, levels of coverage, etc).

 

[Hokiefyd]

I've bought a number of CPO cars and the peace of mind you get from knowing you have true warranty coverage from any dealership in the country is worth it in my opinion. Unless you have good experience with a specific third party warranty company, and already know which one you'd buy, most of those are a coin toss in terms of trying to get reimbursed for work, etc. I'm sure there are ones out there that are better than others. But I think I'd put my dollar on a manufacturer's warranty before I would on a third party warranty.

 

[jaj]

I remember a controversy over a decision by BMWNA not to offer a CPO program for the E60 M5. Or am I remembering incorrectly?

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^Haven't heard anything about that one. I hate 3rd party warranties... bad investments usually.

Dparm, take your time. The perfect car usually shows up about the time you compromise and buy something less than you wanted!

I can definitely understand the daily driver preferring the larger 5 series interior. I no longer enjoy slipping into cars that are like a shoe myself. But a used M5 would frighten me off with the outrageous repair costs, more so with the automated shift versus a regular stick.

I have heard the stick versions are slower due to increased torque management, but I cannot say I drove one.

 

[dparm]

Carmax's warranties are actually pretty good; I think for 6 years/100k it was like $2250 with a $100 deductible (on the M3 and M5). You can take it to any shop you want, including the dealer. If you take it to Carmax they knock the deductible down by $50. It's a named exclusion policy which is fairly comprehensive.

But yes, it's nice to have time on my side. I've got email alerts set for Autotrader, Cars.com, Carmax, and Manheim.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Sounds really good for the peace of mind. Wonder what a SMG goes for?

 

[dparm]

There is no appreciable difference in vehicle price or warranty price on SMG or manual trans.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Carmax's warranties are actually pretty good; I think for 6 years/100k it was like $2250 with a $100 deductible (on the M3 and M5). You can take it to any shop you want, including the dealer. If you take it to Carmax they knock the deductible down by $50. It's a named exclusion policy which is fairly comprehensive.


My brother bought his '99 C5 from Carmax, and bought the warranty, and will agree that they were pretty good about covering repairs under it. As you said, he had the liberty to choose the shop (even dealers), and had no trouble getting reimbursed. I do think Carmax's warranty is a little different from "Joe's Auto Warranty Service", though, as you're buying it at the point of sale from a very nationally-recognized organization.

Good luck with the search!