Would you hate me??

[SteveD2]

I need to change the fluid out in my NV5600...so based on the UOA of Amsoil MTF, the collective "we" decided that mixing in a quart of MTG with the remainder MTF might be a good idea...well Amsoil's site doesn't allow me to input a "preferred customer number" and I don't have time to mess with calling around.

I have several quarts of Redline MTL sitting around from prevous fills...what would everyone think about changing over to Redline...running a quart of MT-90 with MTL???

Amsoil just irritated me tonight...probably to the point I will be dumping their bypass filter too. Paid $20 for something I have to talk to a live person...ummm, NO! For that, Amsoil should cater to ME.

So, would swapping to easier-to-obtain Redline be OK??

steved

 

[Pablo]

I don't quite understand what issue you had? You are a preferred customer and it wouldn't accept your number?

 

[unDummy]

Sounds like a good plan. I understand that some people are overfilling this unit to make up for some of the 'too thick is bad' issues.

Whats the total capacity?
Would 1 quart of MT90 thicken it much anyway?

 

[wgtoys]

Redline make excellent gear lubes and I don't see any reason not to switch, especially considering how much easier it is to buy Redline products.

 

[bmwtechguy]

If you register on the website, then you can log in as a preferred customer, I believe. I registered as a retail account and ordering could not be easier. Both brands are easy to order online. I don't see how Amsoil is hard to obtain. Now, Schaeffers: that's a whole other story...

 

[SteveD2]

Quote:

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I don't quite understand what issue you had? You are a preferred customer and it wouldn't accept your number?

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There is no place during the entire checkout to add your customer number...it was tallying up the costs without reflecting my "discount". And I already registered, and again, no place for a customer number. If I knew I was going to be required to jump through hoops to use the "discount", I would not have bothered buying Amsoil MTF in the first place.

So a quart isn't going to be enough?? I was going to start with a quart of MT-90, and work my way up...MT-90 = 15w40 and MTL = 5w30 in the motor oil world (how I can relate), so I guess there really isn't that much difference. I just figured start small and work up until it shifts/behaves consistantly. I can always drain a quart and add some as I go along...

I ran Redline MTL with similar results as the Amsoil MTF...I would rate them about equal...the redline seemed to last longer than the Amsoil before shifting characteristics started falling off, but the Amsoil shifted better initially... I had a "sweet spot" lately...if the tranny fluid was around 120*F, it shifts like butter...any colder or hotter and it starts getting hard to shift.

steved

 

[Pablo]

Quote:

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There is no place during the entire checkout to add your customer number...it was tallying up the costs without reflecting my "discount". And I already registered, and again, no place for a customer number. If I knew I was going to be required to jump through hoops to use the "discount", I would not have bothered buying Amsoil MTF in the first place.

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There is no jumping through hoops, especially if you enter through "Preferred Customer Zone Login". All the discount prices are right there. Preferred Customer Login

If you enter through the Amsoil Store (retail prices) It's right after the order "summary screen", it's the second screen after clicking "checkout". Anyone can try it here: www.amsoil.com

 

[SteveD2]

Quote:

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There is no jumping through hoops, especially if you enter through "Preferred Customer Zone Login". All the discount prices are right there. Preferred Customer Login

If you enter through the Amsoil Store (retail prices) It's right after the order "summary screen", it's the second screen after clicking "checkout". Anyone can try it here: www.amsoil.com

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Hmm, now it's telling me I got to wait a day because the email I used doesn't match the one they have on file??? Considering I only have ONE email address...

While they are waiting a day to figure it out, I can order Redline from Summit Racing today and have it here tomorrow.

Simple as that. Summit 1, Amsoil 0. Sorry, but I don't have a day to wait.

steved

 

[wgtoys]

Our local auto parts store stocks a good variety of Redline lubes right on the shelf. What could be easier? Walk in, pick up bottles, pay the nice man, carry on.

 

[SteveD2]

Quote:

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Sounds like a good plan. I understand that some people are overfilling this unit to make up for some of the 'too thick is bad' issues.

Whats the total capacity?
Would 1 quart of MT90 thicken it much anyway?

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OK, I was told to overfill by a quart (or was it two?) on several occasions...I tried overfilling one time by a single quart (of just regular MTL) and had hotter than usual operating temps...draining the excess brought things back to "normal". I am still unsure whether the overfilling of an NV5600 is a good idea.

The total capacity is around 7 quarts with my coolers...I just ordered two quarts of MT-90 and 5 quarts of MTL, so I can add more as needed.

An someone refresh my memory...RP synchromax is the thinnest, Amsoil MTF is a little thicker, and Redline MTL is the thicker of the synchromeshes?? I wonder if the MTL is already thick enough or if it needs as much MT-90 to thicken it?

steved

 

[unDummy]

Measured temp isn't usually understood well and regularly confused/debated over concerning oil, coolants, ATF.......

2 simple possibilities:
If your overfilled gear oil is hotter, then something is possibly being cooled better then when it is underfilled. Example: hot loaded bearings or gears running at 300-350 degrees are now cooled down to 250-300 degrees, but your gear oil reads 10-20 degree hotters. Even if gear oil is hotter, would you agree that the bearings/gears.... are happier? This is why overly thick poor flowing gear oil in poorly splash lubricated systems cause self destruction.

Or, you're whipping the fluid into shaving cream which I doubt is possible with a quality MTF/MTL. Again, simple inspection of fluid after a run will rule out or show foaming. If excessive fluid foaming is present, then your lubricating/cooling with air which is inferior to the gear oil equipped with AW/EP additives and fluids BTU capability.
If no foaming is present, then I'll take hotter gear oil.

 

[SteveD2]

Quote:

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Measured temp isn't usually understood well and regularly confused/debated over concerning oil, coolants, ATF.......

2 simple possibilities:
If your overfilled gear oil is hotter, then something is possibly being cooled better then when it is underfilled. Example: hot loaded bearings or gears running at 300-350 degrees are now cooled down to 250-300 degrees, but your gear oil reads 10-20 degree hotters. Even if gear oil is hotter, would you agree that the bearings/gears.... are happier? This is why overly thick poor flowing gear oil in poorly splash lubricated systems cause self destruction.

Or, you're whipping the fluid into shaving cream which I doubt is possible with a quality MTF/MTL. Again, simple inspection of fluid after a run will rule out or show foaming. If excessive fluid foaming is present, then your lubricating/cooling with air which is inferior to the gear oil equipped with AW/EP additives and fluids BTU capability.
If no foaming is present, then I'll take hotter gear oil.

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Good point...and well taken. And I totally agree with you, as that isn't a view I had thought about before...but it makes more sense than the idea of "flooding" and starvation from lack of sling...

I know for fact the MTL doesn't whip into foam, because I have pulled the plug within a minute of pulling off the highway...it is usually crystal clear. And this was when it was "overheating"...I drove 50 miles home, pulled in the driveway, grabbed the container, and pulled the fill plug to drain the "excessive" MTL (it was redline at that time)...it drained absolutely clear, very hot, but it looked just like it went in...

Well, guess I'll try it then...With the coolers, I can easily add more oil than needed...and with 7 coming and 3 that I have...I should have enough!

So when I add new oil, do you think I should start with both quarts of MT-90 and fill the remainder with MTL??

steved

 

[unDummy]

Just in case you lose count with the MTL and don't get all the MT90 in there, start with the MT90. I forget that your tranny has the mega huge sump 'cause of the coolers....

And, its great that you verified the foam-free gear oil. So overfilling by a pint or quart(good ol' vehicle tilt when filling), even if temp is higher, might actually benefit by improving flow, splash, or cooling!

With the coolers, don't fill by quantity, fill by level. Quantity filling can be a mistake and is best as starting point for trannies, diffs, engines, cases, 'ends.......Since components have MFG tolerances, since case or fluid temperatures and altitude can affect levels, since OEMs sometimes incorrectly state capacities, and drainplugs tend to have variable draining capabilities due to location, I recommend filling to the top while both tranny and fluid are a room temp and vehicle is on tested level surface. Then, if you want to overfill, tilt vehicle and overfill by measured amount.

I guess that noone remembers the transmission that had incorrectly located fill plugs. They had a short life because tranny was low on fluid straight from the factory. Accidently overfilled trannies didn't have the short life. I would hope that this isn't an issue on any 'sumped component' today.

 

[SteveD2]

Yeah, the cooler fit into the PTO covers...the fill plug is only a little over half the height of the center of the PTO covers, so if I fill to say the top of the PTO covers (and the coolers), that should put the oil at that extra height above the fill. And considering the "normal" fill with the coolers is 7 quarts...I should be nearer to 9 quarts, maybe 10.

Some guys overfill through the top PTO cover bolt, others pull the top of the tranny off and fill through there.

I know that dodge recently had issues with the newer G56 truck tranny, where the trans wasn't assembled with assembly lube which causes some of the bearings to fail prematurely...the fix was to overfill the trans by a quart or two of ATF...(they use ATF)...

steved

 

[Steve S]

Redline trans oil work well.

 

[SteveD2]

I ran it a little bit (just straight MTL ot MTL with some Lucas additive) early last summer, then had an Amsoil rep talk me into the MTF last fall when I added the coolers.

The Redline seemed to do the job then, hopefully it will do the job again. I'm going to have a UOA done on the Redline to see how it holds up to the MTF.

steved

 

[ewetho]

My experience with Redline has been nothing but awesome. However same with Amsoil. My preferred customer login has been flawless.

If they torqued you off get Redline and be done with it. MTL and MT-90 are very close to each other. If you want the stock weight of most cars and trucks get MT-90. MTL worked great in cars but suggest straight MT-90 for use in a truck where you need coolers and such.

 

[SteveD2]

Quote:

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MTL worked great in cars but suggest straight MT-90 for use in a truck where you need coolers and such.

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The trans calls for synchromesh...so I'll blend the two for the time being and see if it improves. If it does, I'll keep upping the MT-90 until I have a problem (most likely with shifting)...

steved

 

[Hong_Kong_Phooey]

I like you, because I too resent amsoil, although it's not quite as fun as mobil1 bashing.

For all i know, they make good stuff.

I am a rotella guy, for no good reason other than it's a bit different.

I also do supertech, which is plenty good but remember to change regularly.

 

[ewetho]

MTL is 70W-80 (5W-30/10W-30 Motor OIl Viscosity)
MT-90 is 75W-90

Not much else different.