I think that is very much the exception to the rule. But it goes both ways in cases like that. If you really wanted the car then you wouldn't have quibbled over $50 either..
Why new car dealers have a bad rep
- Thread starter fdcg27
- Start date
The range is the key. They can either believe in a different range and wait for it, or they have sold a few in the last few weeks to know the range and you don't.
In any case, the reason they refuse to sell to you is because you are not in "the range".
People on both sides want to win the negotiation and different dealers operate differently. Some sell in the range and some like to squeeze and enjoy the negotiation process. My experience is that is not very much the exception. When we went to buy the 2004 Corolla new off a local dealer, the MSRP was $17,500. They had an add-on sticker for an extra $1000. We said we like the car. They said, you're in luck, we can knock $1000 off the price and sell to you for $17,500 plus tax and tags. We said no. We'll buy for $15,500. They said no way. Best we can do is $17,000. We said no way. $15,500 is our bottom line. They said $16,500 is their absolute bottom line. We said thanks for your time. They then said they could do $16,000. My wife, who by now was really mad at their initial offer of MSRP, said our bottom line is now $15,000. They got mad that she changed our bottom line. She said that's what happens when you lie. They said, You calling me a liar? She said Yeah, people that lie are called liars. They acted all innocent, How did we lie? She replied, you said your absolute bottom line was $16,500 and then you came down farther. Therefore, you lied to us and I don't trust anything you're saying. I think you can better than $15,500 and you're wasting our time with your games. Eventually, they offered us $15,500 but we said it's too late now and we left. Went to another dealer who told us they can't match $15,500. Went to a third dealer and bought the car for $15,400 in 5 minutes. Bought 3 more cars from that dealership since then.
There are some dealers that get customers in the door by online advertising the lowest price which in and of itself would be a loss to the dealer. If they actually sold cars for those prices they would be out of business by the end of the year. Instead they sell high profit add on items to prevent a loss on the vehicle and to get the gross where it needs to be in order to stay open.
OTOH, there are what I'll call full price dealers, that do not advertise an online loss leader price. Their starting price is high enough so that they can get the gross they need without all of the high profit add on items. They will probably try to sell some of those (but not to the extent that the low online places do) and if you fall for that, well it is on you.
OTOH, there are what I'll call full price dealers, that do not advertise an online loss leader price. Their starting price is high enough so that they can get the gross they need without all of the high profit add on items. They will probably try to sell some of those (but not to the extent that the low online places do) and if you fall for that, well it is on you.
At least in California, what you advertise must have a VIN and you have to sell it for that price if people come in and want to buy it for that price. They cannot reserve it and they cannot accept a deposit. I tried, I have to drive there first thing in the morning to get it.
Yup, but the "range" of buyer can be way off from the "range" of the seller.
Dealerships don't make much money selling you just a car, and if thats all they did it probably would not be worth doing when you consider the amount of cash they have to lay out. So they must be creative and sell you services and they must entice you to come back for service. Internet has made it harder for them because now the consumer is better informed on prices.
Cars are better than they have ever been in most respects. The trouble is they are no longer simple. I made a crack about a wooden car that runs on wood in another thread and it was in jest but idea of a simple car is very attractive to some people in our age group that used to fix things. What do I want in a vehicle? I want to do things for myself and I don't mind if I have to get a little dirty now and then to do them.
I want a simple bare bones car to get me from A to B, and I want it to be CHEAP to buy and own.
I want something that does not rust, is a long lasting non depreciation asset like my home. I want something functional more like a truck than car. I want it to be super clean with no poison from a tail pipe, I want it made from easily recycled materials and I want it to have a clean renewable power source. I don't think I want all the gadgets because I never had them. But over the years I decided that power options, traction control and ABS are really nice. Maybe auto drive is a not bad idea for those times I am tired or I need to send the car off to do a pick up or run an errand for me.
Maybe a measure of autonomy is OK if this is the last car I ever get, I will not be able to drive forever and I might develop some mobility issues.
Maybe the car has a "Driver" that helps me in and out and carries things into the house. Perhaps in my final years a car that can tell when I am in trouble and take me to hospital.
My idealized car is starting to sound like a robot Butler. Maybe I want a simple car that runs on wood.... And a robot does everything including the maintenance and the cooking. And make it hot looking too, because when I am old and senile I can still have the illusion of mobility, independents and have a hot woman that takes care of me....
PLEASE Laugh at this I am making a joke.
But think about what do you really want?
Now the sales pitch...
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It all boils down to how much do you want to pay.
Cars have only double in price since about mid 90s. R&D cost and manufacturing cost have increased more than that. You see single digit percentage profit margin typically, and you at most see 20 something %. Customers say they all want this and that but when they take out their checkbook they never want to pay for it.
That brown stick shift diesel wagon? Everyone wants them to be build brand new but they never want to buy it new. They want others to buy it new so they can get it used. You cannot run a business for this kind of customers. What you are seeing, is car companies selling what is profitable, and you are not a profitable customer that they are targeting. The target customers are the one forking out 60k for a loaded truck or SUV.
The same for dealer. They order what sells, and for every one person who wants a brown stick shift diesel wagon of a left over model on Labor day fire sale, there are 99 customers who want a new silver SUV with moon roof, automatic, premium interior trim, decorative alloy wheels, low profile tires, lidar assist braking, infotainment, warm and cool seats, power hatch, etc.
You can order one, but the dealer won't put down his capital to order for you because they have to pay interest on the loan and the rent on the lot waiting for you to show up once every 5 years.
Tesla will have this problem once they grow big. They don't have to worry about inventories and combination until they no longer can sell everything they make.
Ugh....just went through this. Replacing our Rover, we wanted to look at the Suburban and Yukon. Seeing a few of them around, I like the look and capabilities.
Wife and I go to the local dealer and as soon as we get in, someone comes over. I say we are looing at the Suburban/Yukon and where are they (none in the showroom). Rep says, 'come on over., need to get you in the system'. I reply, '..don't have time, we are looking at other vehicles and just want to see them...'. No luck, we sit down and I'm losing patience. After I give basic contact info, Rep starts what is your trade in? Financed? What monthly payment do you want? etc. I don't answer any of them and repeat '..just want to see one'. Wife walks away at this point. I get the feeling he is delaying us (was later in the day on a weekend).
Finally he walks us out to the lot, but no test drive yet, until we '..get me in the system...'. In his defense, he said he was 'new to the job'. We leave.
Go to the Rover dealer;
'Hi, what are you interested in?'
'Hi, Defender'
'Do you know about them?'
'Yes, thanks'
'Great, give me your license and I will return w/ keys...coffee?'
5 minutes and we are on the road.
Both vehicles are about the same price, but the sales experience couldn't be farther apart. Didn't buy either BTW.
Wife and I go to the local dealer and as soon as we get in, someone comes over. I say we are looing at the Suburban/Yukon and where are they (none in the showroom). Rep says, 'come on over., need to get you in the system'. I reply, '..don't have time, we are looking at other vehicles and just want to see them...'. No luck, we sit down and I'm losing patience. After I give basic contact info, Rep starts what is your trade in? Financed? What monthly payment do you want? etc. I don't answer any of them and repeat '..just want to see one'. Wife walks away at this point. I get the feeling he is delaying us (was later in the day on a weekend).
Finally he walks us out to the lot, but no test drive yet, until we '..get me in the system...'. In his defense, he said he was 'new to the job'. We leave.
Go to the Rover dealer;
'Hi, what are you interested in?'
'Hi, Defender'
'Do you know about them?'
'Yes, thanks'
'Great, give me your license and I will return w/ keys...coffee?'
5 minutes and we are on the road.
Both vehicles are about the same price, but the sales experience couldn't be farther apart. Didn't buy either BTW.
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- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 29,558
Have cars gotten better,or has maintenance gotten better?
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 29,558
That’s why I always do my browsing when they’re closed. If I see something I’m interested in,I’ll return when they’re open and check it out.
