Why manufacturer would only recommends Semi Synthetic

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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Because conventional oil has some very good anti wear/lubrication characteristics that synthetic does not as the refining process from conventional to synthetic removes it which then is added back in by the refiner. Dont ask me what it is because I do not remember but some research on your part should help. It MIGHT have something to do with the "wax" that gets refined out.

Bottom line, it doesnt matter, both oils are good but I to this day only use I conventional and semi/syn oils. They all meet the same API standards and half the conventional oils out there already are semi syn. Granted, I do change oils before the recommended mileage change in all my vehicles.


This makes sense, thanks!

 

[Rygrego]

I have never read so much misinformation and ignorance in my life let a lone from a site like BITOG which usually has an over abundance of correct information. The only disadvantage to synthetic vs conventional is price as synthetic is better in every way possible. Please step up to the 21st century and stop quoting myths from the 70s.

 

[BigCahuna]

Whats more important to you, marketing or real measurable performance?. https://www.thedrive.com/the-hammer...-consumer-reports-concluded-a-decade-ago

 

[4WD]

I see a snapshot … with a fair amount of realism … but what is the average OCI behind that statement a decade back and how many were Ford modular engines and limited GTDI ? Or mostly a US data set and not on high speed Euro roads

Blackstone does oil tests … but they don't design, build, own, and operate many engines - nor tear them down.
So they live in the granulated PPM world … a tool if you so desire … as our guru stated.
OEM's and lubricant types (mechanical or chemical engineers/chemists) live in another area code and have their own labs
Listen to all of them … not one.

 

[ad244]

Originally Posted by Rygrego
I have never read so much misinformation and ignorance in my life let a lone from a site like BITOG which usually has an over abundance of correct information. The only disadvantage to synthetic vs conventional is price as synthetic is better in every way possible. Please step up to the 21st century and stop quoting myths from the 70s.


I meen the 2019 owners manual specifically states Semi-Synthetic...? Theres been some really good responses so far. Please provide your own technical/ evidential support?

 

[Bonz]

So did we establish it is a 3000 mile oci? Please clarify on that.

 

[Bonz]

Originally Posted by Rygrego
I have never read so much misinformation and ignorance in my life let a lone from a site like BITOG which usually has an over abundance of correct information. The only disadvantage to synthetic vs conventional is price as synthetic is better in every way possible. Please step up to the 21st century and stop quoting myths from the 70s.


Where is the misinformation and the ignorance you speak of? There are a lot of guys that have done a lot of analysis and been a part of this forum well beyond 12 posts and don't get bent out of shape.

Many of those advantages are at extremely cold temperatures i.e. cold start-up and in extended drain intervals. With a 3000-mile oci there is no major synthetic advantage at the ambient temperatures the motorcycle will be run at. With a 15w50 semi synthetic such as Mystik JT8 the bike should not experience significant shear down to degrade shift quality. I see no reason not to choose or use that oil.

Mystic JT8 15w50 is a dang good oil as witnessed by good UOA's on this site. Other guys run it, I ran it, and can honestly say I don't run it now because I don't need a 50 weight on the top end with a liquid cooled engine that calls for 10w40 as the main oil with others acceptable of course.

Through analysis I have found the Mobil 1 10w40 does not fall off in performance and has amazing service life left even at 5000 mile intervals. No practical difference in the analysis from that oil to the Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50, so I'm going with the lighter weight oil, all else equal, that will have less pumping loss and provide a higher oil flow rate through the engine.

 

[Gillsy]

Perhaps they are trying to say "something more stout than mineral, but synthetic not required". I have over 10,000 miles on my Versys 650 LT. I've tried many motorcycle specific oils. When it comes to performance/price ratio, I think it's hard to beat Valvoline synthetic Motorcycle oil. I am fussy, and this stuff is good in my bike.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

The only requirement for a semi syn over a full syn is leaded fuel... leaded fuel is why there are no 100% synthetic aviation oils...

Quote Shell...

All synthetic Av Oil? Not as long as we have lead in the fuel.
Fully synthetic oils have no lead-carrying capability. We know of no
additives that will address this because lead byproducts in an engine
aren't a single species; combustion forms many lead compounds in the
oil. Designing a single additive to address this would be difficult.
Synthetics have definite advantages, especially better viscosity
characteristics generally. That means you have to add less in the way
of viscosity index improvers, which is good.

 

[Bonz]

The question of a 3000-mile oci has not been clarified. Is that the recommended oci in the USA?

With respect to leaded fuel, are there other places in the world where these bikes are sold that leaded fuel is still in use?

 

[4WD]

Interesting (positive) comment on the M1 10w40 … but I suppose we might have some evolution to protect from revisionist lube historians who slime it still … like it never joined the next century
For the elderly a bad memory aka the advent of 10w40 conventional "multi vis" … that not all brands deserve
For the elderwise men like Tig (full respect, not sarcasm) … that's what got replaced with his original Mobil 1 in a 20

In the recent era … 10w40 got lost in the CAFE shuffle … and it's a darn good range that no OEM is asking for … but still seems to fit niche applications minus broad support

 

[Bonz]

I think we are confusing two things here. Motorcycle manufacturers do not have a cafe mandate that I am aware of and are not beholden to any weight of oil.

Mobil1 10w40 4T synthetic and others like Motul, Redline, etc are really good oils that don't belong lumped in with automobile 10w40 oils from decades ago. Those old automobile 10w40 oils were some crummy stuff, the amount of viscosity index improver needed given the base stock of the day caused all kinds of bad things like sticky valves, sticky rings, etc.

MC specific oils of this weight are an entirely different animal, and worthy of consideration in my opinion.

 

[MVAust]

Its business that all, so its based on price. A business/shop will use the cheapest oil in a drum which will meet the recommended specs for the bike/car/truck etc.
Most consumer will not want to pay more for what they believe is the same thing and will do the job.

Most modern cars aka BMW/Merc does not even have a dip stick to check the oil anymore, its a level sensor or sensors. You need to get it SERVICE to do this and need a shop computer to reset the service light.

Look how complicated it is to change the transmission fluid, no transmission fluid dip stick. Need to check the level at a certain temperature. Need a shop computer to run the transmission tests. Trannys are marketed as seal for life transmission. Life of the warranty which is 3-4 years or 80,000km. Then the dealer will sell you a new transmission rather than service the transmission. Even better they will want to sell you a new car to make more money.

Its business that's all, no hard feelings.

 

[Bonz]

What does the last post have to do why a manufacturer would recommend only semi synthetic oil?

So the dealer can do oil changes with a less expensive oil and relatively make more money from it?

 

[DGXR]

On-topic: semi-synthetic has the best of both worlds for a shared-sump application. It provides good shift quality along with anti-wear, anti-shear, hot/cold viscosity stable (including cold flow) and resistance to thermal breakdown, varnish and sludge. Pure conventional might not have the anti-shear and resistance to breakdown. Pure synthetic might not provide good shift quality. Semi-syn is a good recommendation.

Also, synthetic base oils do not provide a stronger or thicker oil film i.e. they do not provide better wear protection than conventional base oils, given the same additive package and all other factors being equal. That's why synthetics are often used from the very start in brand new engines -- they allow wear-in of metal surfaces just like conventional oil. Anyone who says you can't use synthetic during break-in does not understand the truth.