You need to check out a Mazda. My sister has a CX5 and we have a Mazda 5 wagon which they don't make anymore. Toyota recently signed an agreement with Mazda to show them how to make Toyotas fun to drive. Ours has the 2.5 motor. WE are getting 29-30mpg and it is a blast to drive even with the automatic. We had a hard time learning how to drive it without peeling the tires. A very stable fun car with lots of room on either one.
Volkswagen Jetta vs. Toyota Corolla ??
- Thread starter billt460
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This is my 2 cents...and you can yell at me afterwards.
It appears the CVTs have improved. Friend's Mitsubishi Outlanders, 2 of them, performed flawlessly. Never a chatter. No smells or screeches.
Their first one, sold to mutual friends, just turned 100K. It's first 57K was spent zooming up and down an Interstate visiting grandchildren and is now spending time traversing mountainous Connecticut. I changed the fluid at 75K with Amalie CVT.
Get over the "joy of driving" thing. Yes, there's feedback we can feel but really now!
Doesn't any turbo require premium fuel?
We've 2 Mazda3s in the family. Just did oil and rotation on the 2012 (55K). Sis is seeing the >40 mpg on road trips of any length. Plus, these cars have a COLD LIGHT.
They have real 6 speed trannies and road feel. Get a Touring (hatchback) and your poodle will reign.
At least test drive it.
ps I STILL don't like CVTs.
signed, Tortured by Cars
It appears the CVTs have improved. Friend's Mitsubishi Outlanders, 2 of them, performed flawlessly. Never a chatter. No smells or screeches.
Their first one, sold to mutual friends, just turned 100K. It's first 57K was spent zooming up and down an Interstate visiting grandchildren and is now spending time traversing mountainous Connecticut. I changed the fluid at 75K with Amalie CVT.
Get over the "joy of driving" thing. Yes, there's feedback we can feel but really now!
Doesn't any turbo require premium fuel?
We've 2 Mazda3s in the family. Just did oil and rotation on the 2012 (55K). Sis is seeing the >40 mpg on road trips of any length. Plus, these cars have a COLD LIGHT.
They have real 6 speed trannies and road feel. Get a Touring (hatchback) and your poodle will reign.
At least test drive it.
ps I STILL don't like CVTs.
signed, Tortured by Cars
Originally Posted By: Trav
The VW automatic is a solid unit as is the whole car, I liked the Corolla until they went CVT with no other option, IMO they ruined the car for buyers wanting an option with the CVT or nothing approach.
In Europe even the top model can still be had with 1.6 and 6spd stick. Given this option or even a normal auto transmission is not offered I would go with the VW all day, no contest.
If this were an option I would choose this.
https://www.toyota.de/automobile/corolla...anceOption=cash
I would be looking at another $500 - $1000 off the lowest advertised price, with only state tax, registration fees, plate fees added on.
The VW automatic is a solid unit as is the whole car, I liked the Corolla until they went CVT with no other option, IMO they ruined the car for buyers wanting an option with the CVT or nothing approach.
In Europe even the top model can still be had with 1.6 and 6spd stick. Given this option or even a normal auto transmission is not offered I would go with the VW all day, no contest.
If this were an option I would choose this.
https://www.toyota.de/automobile/corolla...anceOption=cash
I would be looking at another $500 - $1000 off the lowest advertised price, with only state tax, registration fees, plate fees added on.
Originally Posted By: Kira
We've 2 Mazda3s in the family. Just did oil and rotation on the 2012 (55K). Sis is seeing the >40 mpg on road trips of any length. Plus, these cars have a COLD LIGHT. They have real 6 speed trannies and road feel.
Automatics or manual?
We've 2 Mazda3s in the family. Just did oil and rotation on the 2012 (55K). Sis is seeing the >40 mpg on road trips of any length. Plus, these cars have a COLD LIGHT. They have real 6 speed trannies and road feel.
Automatics or manual?
Price is going to vary by region. Corolla's are a good selling vehicle all on their own. This is the last year for this generation, as a new Corolla is supposed to come out in 2019. Of course, you'll get you best deal on the last day of the month, e.g.(today). Or the end of any month for that matter. And you'll get an even better deal on the last days of December. Ye see, they have to closeout the month and make payments on every single vehicle in their inventory and that's a lot of vehicle...Or get a leftover 2017.
However, if this is the exact Corolla that you want(year, color, trimline/"SE", etc.), then it may be harder to deal beyond what they're offering with those discounts. The best way to deal is with an invoice and, according to many sources, ONLY pay $200-$300 over invoice unless their offer is even better.
Keep in mind too that, the dealer gets money from the Mfg called Dealer "Holdback". It's usually 2.5%-3.5% of MSRP. So, even if they sold the car to you at a lo$$, they still get that money(monthly/quarterly-IDK). However the sale consultant doesn't benefit from this at all. Also, the Destination/Delivery Charge at the bottom of the sticker(~$800-$1000) is never negotiable.
So, $200-$300 over invoice and the dealer is still making some money. Just make them believe that you'll bring the car to them for service. Just don't sign anything locking you in. Don't buy extras such as extended warranty, paint treatment/fabric treatment or any of the extras that you just don't want. Toyota offers 2 yrs oil/filter changes and IIRC, road side asst.
And unless you're paying cash, already a couple of loans line up for $XX.xxx amount of Dollar$ and also ask the dealer what they can do for low financing as compared to your searching(banks, credit unions). < Have this knowledge already in your pocket.
There are two Nissan Dealerships in my area that sell Altima's at the end of year(DEC) for, NO LIE, $7000-$9000 below sticker. But, it's only for about 1 day. And the dealer still got their "HOLDBACK" money from NISSAN just for selling the car. But, it's ONLY on Altima's and for a very short window of time. This is why I have had 2 Altima's. Even if they're unreliable.
However, if this is the exact Corolla that you want(year, color, trimline/"SE", etc.), then it may be harder to deal beyond what they're offering with those discounts. The best way to deal is with an invoice and, according to many sources, ONLY pay $200-$300 over invoice unless their offer is even better.
Keep in mind too that, the dealer gets money from the Mfg called Dealer "Holdback". It's usually 2.5%-3.5% of MSRP. So, even if they sold the car to you at a lo$$, they still get that money(monthly/quarterly-IDK). However the sale consultant doesn't benefit from this at all. Also, the Destination/Delivery Charge at the bottom of the sticker(~$800-$1000) is never negotiable.
So, $200-$300 over invoice and the dealer is still making some money. Just make them believe that you'll bring the car to them for service. Just don't sign anything locking you in. Don't buy extras such as extended warranty, paint treatment/fabric treatment or any of the extras that you just don't want. Toyota offers 2 yrs oil/filter changes and IIRC, road side asst.
And unless you're paying cash, already a couple of loans line up for $XX.xxx amount of Dollar$ and also ask the dealer what they can do for low financing as compared to your searching(banks, credit unions). < Have this knowledge already in your pocket.
There are two Nissan Dealerships in my area that sell Altima's at the end of year(DEC) for, NO LIE, $7000-$9000 below sticker. But, it's only for about 1 day. And the dealer still got their "HOLDBACK" money from NISSAN just for selling the car. But, it's ONLY on Altima's and for a very short window of time. This is why I have had 2 Altima's. Even if they're unreliable.
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Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Originally Posted By: Trav
The VW automatic is a solid unit as is the whole car, I liked the Corolla until they went CVT with no other option, IMO they ruined the car for buyers wanting an option with the CVT or nothing approach.
In Europe even the top model can still be had with 1.6 and 6spd stick. Given this option or even a normal auto transmission is not offered I would go with the VW all day, no contest.
If this were an option I would choose this.
https://www.toyota.de/automobile/corolla...anceOption=cash
Corolla's aren't even that enjoyable with a stick or shiftable auto(I've had corolla/prism). That just makes a Ho-Hum car less Ho-Hum! I've also driven Corolla's from 2003-present. As-far-as Toyota ruining the Corolla with a CVT, sale figures and their customers don't seem to reflect this. If Corolla sales are down, that's because SUV sale are Waaaaaay up!
When my daughter went to ASU, she drove her roommate's Jetta from Tempe to Las Vegas and just raved about the Jetta. My daughter owned an Accord at the time.
Trav, I understand your passion for VW, I have friends that feel the same way. I've driven all of their VW/Audi's and they're frikken great to drive.
So many from the early 70s-present, from Gulf/Scirocco/Rabbit, Beetle/BUGs, Corrado, THING, BUSS, A4, A6, TT, 911, Macan etc. It depends on your tolerance level with each vehicle and how long you plan on keeping it. If keeping the car for the long haul, can you tolerate the "possible" repairs & cost of fixing the VW as compared to have the Corolla with NO SOUL???
I had a 86 Corolla GTI that was great, not a model sold in the US for some reason but a blast to drive. I had 2 Supra turbos over the years and they were (IMO) better than any VW I have driven but at that time VW didn't make anything in that class.
No Toyota hate here, I like them a lot I just don't like anything about CVT transmissions.
Originally Posted By: Trav
The VW automatic is a solid unit as is the whole car, I liked the Corolla until they went CVT with no other option, IMO they ruined the car for buyers wanting an option with the CVT or nothing approach.
In Europe even the top model can still be had with 1.6 and 6spd stick. Given this option or even a normal auto transmission is not offered I would go with the VW all day, no contest.
If this were an option I would choose this.
https://www.toyota.de/automobile/corolla...anceOption=cash
Corolla's aren't even that enjoyable with a stick or shiftable auto(I've had corolla/prism). That just makes a Ho-Hum car less Ho-Hum! I've also driven Corolla's from 2003-present. As-far-as Toyota ruining the Corolla with a CVT, sale figures and their customers don't seem to reflect this. If Corolla sales are down, that's because SUV sale are Waaaaaay up!
When my daughter went to ASU, she drove her roommate's Jetta from Tempe to Las Vegas and just raved about the Jetta. My daughter owned an Accord at the time.
Trav, I understand your passion for VW, I have friends that feel the same way. I've driven all of their VW/Audi's and they're frikken great to drive.
So many from the early 70s-present, from Gulf/Scirocco/Rabbit, Beetle/BUGs, Corrado, THING, BUSS, A4, A6, TT, 911, Macan etc. It depends on your tolerance level with each vehicle and how long you plan on keeping it. If keeping the car for the long haul, can you tolerate the "possible" repairs & cost of fixing the VW as compared to have the Corolla with NO SOUL???
I had a 86 Corolla GTI that was great, not a model sold in the US for some reason but a blast to drive. I had 2 Supra turbos over the years and they were (IMO) better than any VW I have driven but at that time VW didn't make anything in that class.
No Toyota hate here, I like them a lot I just don't like anything about CVT transmissions.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Here is the problem I have with "test drives". Once you drive one, you need a machete and a 9 MM double stack to get away from the salesmen. No one, and I mean NO ONE, delivers sales pressure like a car salesman. That I'M NOT looking forward to! I hate dealing with those guys!
Don't give them any contact information...walk away...problem solved.
Here is the problem I have with "test drives". Once you drive one, you need a machete and a 9 MM double stack to get away from the salesmen. No one, and I mean NO ONE, delivers sales pressure like a car salesman. That I'M NOT looking forward to! I hate dealing with those guys!
Don't give them any contact information...walk away...problem solved.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Kira
We've 2 Mazda3s in the family. Just did oil and rotation on the 2012 (55K). Sis is seeing the >40 mpg on road trips of any length. Plus, these cars have a COLD LIGHT. They have real 6 speed trannies and road feel.
Automatics or manual?
Either way you like it! Checked them out myself, but not enough headroom for me.
Originally Posted By: Kira
We've 2 Mazda3s in the family. Just did oil and rotation on the 2012 (55K). Sis is seeing the >40 mpg on road trips of any length. Plus, these cars have a COLD LIGHT. They have real 6 speed trannies and road feel.
Automatics or manual?
Either way you like it! Checked them out myself, but not enough headroom for me.
Your decision should be based on how long you intend to keep the car. If you are going to trade cars every 3-4 years, buy whichever car you like better. If you intend to keep the car until the "wheels fall off", buy the Corolla.
Aisin (Toyota's transmission division) manufactures the most reliable and durable automatics in the world and I expect that the CVT will be just as reliable and durable as any other Aisin automatic. I have rented Corollas with the CVT and I don't personally find them objectionable.
The Jetta is a great driving car and certainly more entertaining to drive than a Corolla. The problem with the Jetta is that when it gets a few miles on it, the car will start to nickel and dime you, then at roughly 130k there will likely be a major breakdown that will render the car as not economically repairable. At least that has been my experience with VWs. In your particular case, because of where you live, the major concern that you should have with the Jetta should be with the A/C, they are known to have A/C problems beginning in the 60-70k range.
In the case of Corollas, they are not particularly entertaining to drive, but they are without a doubt the best A-B transportation appliance on the market, and have been for a LONG time. They should remain relatively trouble-free well past 130k and they don't tend to have A/C or automatic transmission problems. I personally owned one that I put 310k miles on. It still ran good, drove good, and passed state inspection when I sold it.
Aisin (Toyota's transmission division) manufactures the most reliable and durable automatics in the world and I expect that the CVT will be just as reliable and durable as any other Aisin automatic. I have rented Corollas with the CVT and I don't personally find them objectionable.
The Jetta is a great driving car and certainly more entertaining to drive than a Corolla. The problem with the Jetta is that when it gets a few miles on it, the car will start to nickel and dime you, then at roughly 130k there will likely be a major breakdown that will render the car as not economically repairable. At least that has been my experience with VWs. In your particular case, because of where you live, the major concern that you should have with the Jetta should be with the A/C, they are known to have A/C problems beginning in the 60-70k range.
In the case of Corollas, they are not particularly entertaining to drive, but they are without a doubt the best A-B transportation appliance on the market, and have been for a LONG time. They should remain relatively trouble-free well past 130k and they don't tend to have A/C or automatic transmission problems. I personally owned one that I put 310k miles on. It still ran good, drove good, and passed state inspection when I sold it.
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Trav,
A friend of mine had a 3 dr Toyota Corolla FX hatch and(I can't remember) another sporty-ish Corolla coupe with something along the lines of what your talking about in the Corolla GT or GTi. Too long ago to remember. Man, I'm having a hard time remembering some of the cars/trucks that I've had!
Yeah, I have no hate or love for Toyota/Lexus as I've owned Corolla's, Camry's, RX300's and though they're reliable, they're also kind'a, mehhhh!
A friend of mine had a 3 dr Toyota Corolla FX hatch and(I can't remember) another sporty-ish Corolla coupe with something along the lines of what your talking about in the Corolla GT or GTi. Too long ago to remember. Man, I'm having a hard time remembering some of the cars/trucks that I've had!
Yeah, I have no hate or love for Toyota/Lexus as I've owned Corolla's, Camry's, RX300's and though they're reliable, they're also kind'a, mehhhh!
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I know the manual is a 6 speed. My 2012 Mazda 3 with the 2.5L and 6 speed. I bought used, so no SkyActive for me, and low 30s in mixed urban driving instead of 40s for the SkyActive engine.
But a solid little car.
Can't really tell you what the automatic has as I didn't look for an automatic car.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Kira
We've 2 Mazda3s in the family. Just did oil and rotation on the 2012 (55K). Sis is seeing the >40 mpg on road trips of any length. Plus, these cars have a COLD LIGHT. They have real 6 speed trannies and road feel.
Automatics or manual?
But a solid little car.
Can't really tell you what the automatic has as I didn't look for an automatic car.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Kira
We've 2 Mazda3s in the family. Just did oil and rotation on the 2012 (55K). Sis is seeing the >40 mpg on road trips of any length. Plus, these cars have a COLD LIGHT. They have real 6 speed trannies and road feel.
Automatics or manual?
Just be honest, tell them you have other cars to test and want to buy a car, not a sales pitch.
You are less likely to buy from a pushy dealer trying to pressure you into a decision right now. If your product is the right one for me, I'll be back to make a deal. If it's not, or you blow it by being pushy or desperate, you will not be back.
And leave.
It might help to go at a time when they are not busy. Showing up on a weekend when they are geared up to move the metal for dozens of sales may not be the best move.
Show up on a slow evening and say you are looking at the Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, Mazda, whatever, and would like to test their _______.
It's just being aware that they too are trying to make a living. Showing up when they are busiest for a test drive, but no immediate intention to buy isn't good sport.
I also have a Google Voice number I hand out, so my home and cell are not ringing. It is set to Do Not Disturb and I get an e-mail when a voice mail appears.
That helps keep the phone call interruptions to a minimum.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Here is the problem I have with "test drives". Once you drive one, you need a machete and a 9 MM double stack to get away from the salesmen. No one, and I mean NO ONE, delivers sales pressure like a car salesman. That I'M NOT looking forward to! I hate dealing with those guys!
You are less likely to buy from a pushy dealer trying to pressure you into a decision right now. If your product is the right one for me, I'll be back to make a deal. If it's not, or you blow it by being pushy or desperate, you will not be back.
And leave.
It might help to go at a time when they are not busy. Showing up on a weekend when they are geared up to move the metal for dozens of sales may not be the best move.
Show up on a slow evening and say you are looking at the Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, Mazda, whatever, and would like to test their _______.
It's just being aware that they too are trying to make a living. Showing up when they are busiest for a test drive, but no immediate intention to buy isn't good sport.
I also have a Google Voice number I hand out, so my home and cell are not ringing. It is set to Do Not Disturb and I get an e-mail when a voice mail appears.
That helps keep the phone call interruptions to a minimum.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Here is the problem I have with "test drives". Once you drive one, you need a machete and a 9 MM double stack to get away from the salesmen. No one, and I mean NO ONE, delivers sales pressure like a car salesman. That I'M NOT looking forward to! I hate dealing with those guys!
Is one of them made in America?
I’ve never owned one I haven’t even driven one but one thing for sure about those CVT transmissions. They just aren’t famous for having a good reputation of longevity. There’s just no getting around that one. Yeah you save a few cents every tank a gas and get paid back by a $5000 bill when it goes [censored] up. It doesn’t sound like a deal to me. Things like blowing up at 60,000 in never making it over 100,000 are the kind of things should I look for in cars to avoid .
Of course if you find a new car and you’re getting rid of it in three years and it still under warranty I guess that’s fine and dandy but it’s no place that I would go.
Of course if you find a new car and you’re getting rid of it in three years and it still under warranty I guess that’s fine and dandy but it’s no place that I would go.
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Is one of them made in America?
Corollas sold in the USA are manufactured in the USA, Jettas and Sentras are manufactured in Mexico, Mazda3s are manufactured in Japan, and Civics sold in the USA are manufactured in the USA, Canada, and Mexico.
Is one of them made in America?
Corollas sold in the USA are manufactured in the USA, Jettas and Sentras are manufactured in Mexico, Mazda3s are manufactured in Japan, and Civics sold in the USA are manufactured in the USA, Canada, and Mexico.
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Better check your source on the Mazda3 being built ONLY in Japan. As far as I know, only the 2.5 versions are still built in Japan as even some of the 2.0L sedan & hatch have been built in Mexico starting in 2014. And some Civic's actually come from the UK. The Corolla iM comes from Japan as well as other parts of the world(Thailand)???
The Corolla Sedan and Hatch is one car that we can jokingly say, is the same but, different!
The Corolla Sedan and Hatch is one car that we can jokingly say, is the same but, different!
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Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Better check your source on the Mazda3 being built ONLY in Japan. As far as I know, only the 2.5 versions are still built in Japan as even some of the 2.0L sedan & hatch have been built in Mexico starting in 2014. And some Civic's actually come from the UK.
As far as I know, only the smaller Mazdas are manufactured in Mexico, but I have to admit that I'm not entirely sure about the low-end Mazda3 2-dr hatchback. I have not personally seen a Mazda3 sedan with a 3 in the VIN, only Js.
Better check your source on the Mazda3 being built ONLY in Japan. As far as I know, only the 2.5 versions are still built in Japan as even some of the 2.0L sedan & hatch have been built in Mexico starting in 2014. And some Civic's actually come from the UK.
As far as I know, only the smaller Mazdas are manufactured in Mexico, but I have to admit that I'm not entirely sure about the low-end Mazda3 2-dr hatchback. I have not personally seen a Mazda3 sedan with a 3 in the VIN, only Js.
I'd definitely choose the Toyota over the VW.
Since you don't want a CVT or a turbo I would take a look at a new Civic. You can get one with a N/A 2L engine and a 6 speed manual transmission. They get upper 30's/low 40's on the hwy.
Since you don't want a CVT or a turbo I would take a look at a new Civic. You can get one with a N/A 2L engine and a 6 speed manual transmission. They get upper 30's/low 40's on the hwy.
Originally Posted By: wag123
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Better check your source on the Mazda3 being built ONLY in Japan. As far as I know, only the 2.5 versions are still built in Japan as even some of the 2.0L sedan & hatch have been built in Mexico starting in 2014. And some Civic's actually come from the UK.
As far as I know, only the smaller Mazdas are manufactured in Mexico, but I have to admit that I'm not entirely sure about the low-end Mazda3 2-dr hatchback. I have not personally seen a Mazda3 sedan with a 3 in the VIN, only Js.
Yeah, the inside of the door jamb will tell you the final assembly plant or under the hood.
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Better check your source on the Mazda3 being built ONLY in Japan. As far as I know, only the 2.5 versions are still built in Japan as even some of the 2.0L sedan & hatch have been built in Mexico starting in 2014. And some Civic's actually come from the UK.
As far as I know, only the smaller Mazdas are manufactured in Mexico, but I have to admit that I'm not entirely sure about the low-end Mazda3 2-dr hatchback. I have not personally seen a Mazda3 sedan with a 3 in the VIN, only Js.
Yeah, the inside of the door jamb will tell you the final assembly plant or under the hood.
The first digit of the VIN will tell you where the car was manufactured.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_identification_number
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