None of the street bikes that I have/had used any extra filtering screens in the engine oiling system ... just an oil filter, either spin-on or cartridge.
The screens are in the oil pickup.
None of the street bikes that I have/had used any extra filtering screens in the engine oiling system ... just an oil filter, either spin-on or cartridge.
Of course, that's pretty standard on any engine regardless of what's beyond the oil pump.The screens are in the oil pickup.
Easy to agree with that. It's true some folks change the oil way early with respect to a manufacturers recommendation, and may not put enough miles on their bike consistently to know what a fall-off in shift quality feels like. Then it does become a 50-50 guess as to what shift quality degradation feels like if you've never felt it.Yep, people that ride the same bike all the time will be able to tell when shifting quality and clutch performance changes. And if it improves with an oil change then it's not hard to conclude the oil was the root cause.
1) the Vic XC chassis is one of THE best cruiser touring bikes I've ever ridden. Put about 35k on XCT in 5 years; pretty much all touring out west and often very hot.
2) I ran Rotella 15w-40 dino oil in mine and never had any performance or shifting issues. I've heard complaints about shifting issues with the T6, but I never had that with the T4. O/FCIs every 5k miles. Love the simple maintenance of the Vic 106/6 bikes!
3) I curse Polaris for killing off the brand; values dropped like a rock.
4) shared sump oil systems are nothing new as we all know. And they are robust if designed/made right. My friend I ride with has 100k+ on his 2008 GL1800 (his touring bike), 173k or so on his old ST1100 (still running, and it's his "loaner" bike when others come to visit), and 53k on his newer ST1300 (his communter bike). Never a trans/engine oil related issue ever, using just normal oil and filters (no super-duper premium syns ever). Yes - he rides a LOT.
The JASO MA rating is broken into two friction category groups ... MA1 and MA2. These days, I don't think you will find any motorcycle oil that is specifically rated as MA1. It will be either MA or MA2. IMO, using either one you won't see any difference. My Yamaha XSR900 calls out "JASO MA" and I use JASO MA2 with no problems.FYI I emailed Schaeffers about some confusion I had regrading their 707 20w50 VTwin oil based on their product tech data sheet and product description. Their response was that due to my bike requiring a JASO MA spec and their oil has certain friction modifiers that is not suitable for wet clutch applications. What confused me is that it is JASO MA-2 rated which I thought was backwards compatible with JASO MA and MA-1. It's a bummer because I like their products and would love to try it out, but I also don't want to damage my clutch.
I don't understand what Schaeffers told you. Should be of no consequence running that in a wet clutch if everything is as you say it is.I changed the oil last night to M1 20w50 and Fram Ultra XG7317. So far it shifts better than 15w40 T6 (even when fresh) and no clutch slippage as some Victory riders report with syn oils. But I only have about 50 miles on it so far. Should be putting about 200ish miles on tonight after work. I'll keep this updated periodically for anyone that is curious and for the lurkers like I am usually.
FYI I emailed Schaeffers about some confusion I had regrading their 707 20w50 VTwin oil based on their product tech data sheet and product description. Their response was that due to my bike requiring a JASO MA spec and their oil has certain friction modifiers that is not suitable for wet clutch applications. What confused me is that it is JASO MA-2 rated which I thought was backwards compatible with JASO MA and MA-1. It's a bummer because I like their products and would love to try it out, but I also don't want to damage my clutch.
This is from Schaffer's Technical Data Sheet, I found their PDF by searching for this oil located here: https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/229-707-td.pdfI don't understand what Schaeffers told you. Should be of no consequence running that in a wet clutch if everything is as you say it is.
First let me say I really liked the Victory Cross Roads.3. I know a lot people feel the same way, myself included. However prices are starting to go up on XC's and XCT's compared to other manufactures. It's crazy to see that early XC's are still going for $8k on up. 2015-2017 seem to go for a minimum of $12k. Not bad unless you compare to HD's overpricing.
Yamaha has shown the following snip-it in the owner's manual for the 2016 thru 2021 XSR900, which does have a catalytic converter. The owner's manual just says "JASO MA". Also, bottles of Yamalube 10W-40 oil just shows "JASO MA". It appears Yamaha doesn't really care if it's MA1 or MA2 specifically.Basically the JASO ratings in actuality are a bit confusing, they have MA, MA1, MA2. MA1 is not very popular and I cannot think of any bikes that use this oil so you're pretty much looking at MA & MA2, the MA2 shows that is for bikes with catalytic converters, MA is a mixture of both MA1 & MA2 properties which is kind of like in the middle and most manuals recommend either JASO MA or JASO MA/MA2.
In a nutshell if you have a bike that needs MA-2 you should be fine but not MA.
More explanation on JASO oils:
What does the JASO oil specification mean?
JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) is an organization consisting of major vehicle manufacturers in Japan. It was created as the Japanese equivalent to the API (American Petroleum Institute) specifications because those were not suitable for the unique specification needs of modern...www.rymax-lubricants.com
The article says the following for JASO MA rated oils. They say MA is for "all applications" which makes it sound like it's OK for MA1 and MA2.More explanation on JASO oils:
What does the JASO oil specification mean?
JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) is an organization consisting of major vehicle manufacturers in Japan. It was created as the Japanese equivalent to the API (American Petroleum Institute) specifications because those were not suitable for the unique specification needs of modern...www.rymax-lubricants.com
With the overlap between MA and MA2, I don't understand how this oil would cause a problem. MA2's main reason for being is designed to be used with catalytic converter's, and typically lower in zinc/phosphorus. The zinc and phosphorus numbers in this oil are sky high, so I'm not sure how the MA2 can apply?This is from Schaffer's Technical Data Sheet, I found their PDF by searching for this oil located here: https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/229-707-td.pdf
"Extreme V-Twin Synthetic Plus Racing Oil is not recommended for use in those motorcycle and ATV applications that specify engine oil that meets JASO MA or MB. Use of Extreme VTwin Synthetic Plus Racing Oil in applications that specify JASO MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms."
"Extreme V-Twin Synthetic Plus Racing Oil meets and exceeds the following specifications and manufacturers’ requirements: API Service Classification SM, Harley-Davidson® V-Twin specifications and JASO (T903) MA-2 specifications"
Basically the JASO ratings in actuality are a bit confusing, they have MA, MA1, MA2. MA1 is not very popular and I cannot think of any bikes that use this oil so you're pretty much looking at MA & MA2, the MA2 shows that is for bikes with catalytic converters, MA is a mixture of both MA1 & MA2 properties which is kind of like in the middle and most manuals recommend either JASO MA or JASO MA/MA2.
In a nutshell if you have a bike that needs MA-2 you should be fine but not MA.
More explanation on JASO oils:
What does the JASO oil specification mean?
JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) is an organization consisting of major vehicle manufacturers in Japan. It was created as the Japanese equivalent to the API (American Petroleum Institute) specifications because those were not suitable for the unique specification needs of modern...www.rymax-lubricants.com
MA2 is in the top half (higher fiction) of the total friction range defined by MA, and MA1 is in the bottom half (lower friction) of the total MA range. If an oil is rated just MA it hasn't fallen solely into the MA1 or MA2 friction ranges of all the defined friction tests. If an oil meets two of the MA2 tests and one of the MA1 tests, then it has to be rated just MA (for example).MA2 has higher coefficient of friction than MA.
Yes, Schaffer's info is confusing.How does that lead to causing issues with slipping? It would seem this oil is better at providing enhanced friction with respect to the clutch, counter to what they spec. Confusing!
Actually the PDF states that using this oil in a JASO MA/MB it can cause clutch slippage and that it meets or exceeds JASO MA2 specifications. The website that you provided earlier had a lot more info on that stuff than the one I had posted. From what little bit I understand from it that MA2 makes the clutch a bit grabbier if you needed an oil to help keep it from slipping. This Schaeffer's oil says it's a racing oil so they must not be all that concerned about the converters longevity by having the extra zinc and phosphorous in there.MA2 is in the top half (higher fiction) of the total friction range defined by MA, and MA1 is in the bottom half (lower friction) of the total MA range. If an oil is rated just MA it hasn't fallen solely into the MA1 or MA2 friction ranges of all the defined friction tests. If an oil meets two of the MA2 tests and one of the MA1 tests, then it has to be rated just MA (for example).
Like I posted earlier, Yamaha just calls out JASO MA for the 2016-2021 XSR900, all model years have a catalytic converter. And Yamalube 10W-40 is just rated MA. The Castrol Power 1 10W-40 I have on deck is rated MA2. I'll run either MA or MA2, I don't think it's going to really matter.
Yes, Schaffer's info is confusing.
Yeah, that's something that is in disagreement with other info on JASO motorcycle oil ratings. If you use an MA in a MB application, or vice-versa then there many be clutch operation issues. But for them to say you can't use MA2 for something calling for MA doesn't sound correct to me.Actually the PDF states that using this oil in a JASO MA/MB it can cause clutch slippage and that it meets or exceeds JASO MA2 specifications.
MA2 has higher friction levels test requirements and is suppose to be for bikes with catalytic converters. Schaeffer's says: "Use of Extreme V-Twin Synthetic Plus Racing Oil in applications that specify JASO MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms."The website that you provided earlier had a lot more info on that stuff than the one I had posted. From what little bit I understand from it that MA2 makes the clutch a bit grabbier if you needed an oil to help keep it from slipping. This Schaeffer's oil says it's a racing oil so they must not be all that concerned about the converters longevity by having the extra zinc and phosphorous in there.
I would use MA2 instead of MA if the bike specifically called for MA2 but if the bottle listed both MA/MA2 I wouldn't hesitate on whether to use it or not. I don't think I've ever seen an oil solely for MA2 until this Schaeffer's, usually the ones I see are just MA or MA/MA2.
I don't understand what Schaeffers told you. Should be of no consequence running that in a wet clutch if everything is as you say it is.
The JASO MA rating is broken into two friction category groups ... MA1 and MA2. These days, I don't think you will find any motorcycle oil that is specifically rated as MA1. It will be either MA or MA2. IMO, using either one you won't see any difference. My Yamaha XSR900 calls out "JASO MA" and I use JASO MA2 with no problems.
With the overlap between MA and MA2, I don't understand how this oil would cause a problem. MA2's main reason for being is designed to be used with catalytic converter's, and typically lower in zinc/phosphorus. The zinc and phosphorus numbers in this oil are sky high, so I'm not sure how the MA2 can apply?
MA2 has higher coefficient of friction than MA. How does that lead to causing issues with slipping? It would seem this oil is better at providing enhanced friction with respect to the clutch, counter to what they spec. Confusing!
To further clarify, it's the phosphorus levels that are bad for a catalytic converter. Typically zinc and phosphorus are within a few hundred ppm of each other because from my understanding, they need to be relatively balanced in order to perform properly.
JASO MA2 has a window of 800 ppm to 1200 ppm of said phosphorus, as well as the already discussed friction ratings being met. Schaefer's is well above that at a stated 1300-1900 ppm.
IMO, regardlesss of the racing designation, that Schaeffer puts on the oil for marketing for whatever reason, if it has an official industry rating it would need to be acceptable to use in vehicles that specify that rating.
In addition to the friction rating confusion we've talked about, this adds more question as to what Schaefer's is basing it on.
MA2 has higher friction levels test requirements and is suppose to be for bikes with catalytic converters. Schaeffer's says: "Use of Extreme V-Twin Synthetic Plus Racing Oil in applications that specify JASO MA or MB oil can cause slippage and improper engagement of the clutch mechanisms."
But MA2 is suppose to have more friction and therefore less clutch slippage, so how would MA2 cause more slippage in a bike calling for an MA oil which has a less friction spec? They contradict their own statements.