Victory XC notchy shifting

[TacoFergie]

Went on a road trip last week from Iowa to Colorado and it was insanely hot! Bike is a 2012 Victory Cross Country.

Anyways, I noticed about halfway through the trip (1750 mi in 4 days) that my shifting became very notchy feeling, especially on down shifts. This was the first time I had used Rotella T6 15w-40 which many on here and Victory pages like. But it seemed like it sheared very quickly! We ran about 70-80mph most of the trip to CO. Once in CO we tooled around the roads and I did run it pretty hard on the mountains, but I didn’t think fresh oil would shear that quickly. Before this I had always ran the “Victory oil change kit” but they are insanely expensive! I haven’t had this bad of shifting feel on this bike. So it makes me wonder if it’s just heat that caused it or if maybe I was riding it harder than I though. Either way, less than 2k on oil is a no-go for me.

I’ve been looking at some different oils, just like I thoroughly researched the T6. So now I’m looking for some guys that ride their V-Twins spirited like I do with good experience with a certain oil. I’m thinking of stepping up to a 20w-50 possibly. My current front runners are:

Schaeffers 20w-50 v-twin
M1 15w-40 or 20w-50 v-twin or 4t racing (not sure the difference?)
SuperTech 20w-50 v-twin
Castrol Power 1 15w-40 or 20w-50

I’m open to suggestions too. I would love amsoil, but there is none available locally and I don’t feel like ordering oil online. I haven’t heard much on these forums about Lucas motorcycle oils, leads me to believe they are just meh. I haven’t figured out what the difference between “4T” or “V-Twin” oils are. Only thing I can think of is shear stability would likely be better on a v-twin oil due to lots of torque and heavy loads.

Mine is the blue one.

 

[spasm3]

I experienced the same thing on a little suzuki 250 with a shared gearbox. But it was t-6 5w40. Never noticed it with the 15w 40.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Valvoline makes a full synthetic 20W-50 motorcycle oil, and it's sold on Amazon and probably cheaper in price than most full synthetic motorcycle oils. I haven't used it, but have used Valvoline conventional motorcycle oil and it worked well in my bikes.

 

[benjy]

Vic trannys have stout straight cut gears + my 13 Hammer is not Triumph bonneville smooth but better than my traded 2006 porkster. i use 15-50 synthetic motorcycle oils. i dont do long rides but all oils thin as they get hotter + in warmer climates a 20-50 will do better IMO. synthetics better but not needed just like "motorcycle" oils, change cheaper conventionals more often. got some Maxima 15-50 semi_syn to try said to be 50% ester my fav, Vic oil is overpriced crap!!! a wix filter works well IMO. long live VICTORIES!!

 

[02SE]

I've tried most of HDEO oils. My opinion is that they are better than nothing. Shifting has always deteriorated quickly with HDEO's in my shared-sump bikes.

My favorite for maintaining slick shift quality in our sportbikes, is Motul 300V 4T, usually in 15w50.

 

[alarmguy]

M1 20/50 V-Twin. problem solved in hot weather.

 

[Ride_Red]

I had the same problem with Rotella T6 in my motorcycle. Shifting gets really notchy after only a few thousand miles. I won't use Rotella again.
Try Mobil1 20W-50 V-Twin. It's a good oil and many on BITOG like it. My bike uses 10W-40 and I've run the Mobil 1 10W-40 Racing 4T for 6000 miles with great shift quality the whole time.

 

[TacoFergie]

Valvoline makes a full synthetic 20W-50 motorcycle oil, and it's sold on Amazon and probably cheaper in price than most full synthetic motorcycle oils. I haven't used it, but have used Valvoline conventional motorcycle oil and it worked well in my bikes.

I don't mind Valvoline, but I do want to stick with something I can get locally just for ease of availability. I have seen the dino locally, but not syn. I have always preferred syn oils wherever I can use them. In my dirt bikes I have had very good luck with Honda GN4 10w-40, but that gets changed pretty frequently and is only 1qt at a time. I noticed on my old DRZ400S (converted to SM) that a couple motorcycle rated syn oils caused the clutch to engage softer, never slipped, but I didn't feel comfortable with it. The GN4 has always provided great clutch feel!

Vic trannys have stout straight cut gears + my 13 Hammer is not Triumph bonneville smooth but better than my traded 2006 porkster. i use 15-50 synthetic motorcycle oils. i dont do long rides but all oils thin as they get hotter + in warmer climates a 20-50 will do better IMO. synthetics better but not needed just like "motorcycle" oils, change cheaper conventionals more often. got some Maxima 15-50 semi_syn to try said to be 50% ester my fav, Vic oil is overpriced crap!!! a wix filter works well IMO. long live VICTORIES!!

Ya, they do seem to be tough on oil! Lots of torque and 850lb curb weight, probably around 1100lbs total during my trip with me and my gear. I mainly ride summer (Iowa) and we rarely get consistent temps in the 40's or 50's, usually 80F+ humid or 20F....I'm not riding that cold! haha Where I'm going with that is that I "think" 20W-50 would suite me best since most of my riding in higher temps and would shear far less/slower rate than what the 15W-40. I think there is one shop close that sells Maxima near me, I'll have to check prices. I've only used their chain lube, which worked well. But after trying a few Motorex Products, I've really like them. A bit pricey, but their Off-Road Chain Lube and Cross Power 2T 2 stroke oil I was sold. Chains last longer, stay cleaner, less smoke with the 2T oil and less suit/build-up.

BTW, I really like my XC! I hated the Buffeting for the longest time but I made those filler plates that block off the lower areas inside the crash bars and it completely eliminated the air coming from below that causes the buffeting. I kept enough of a gap on the inner portion to keep airflow for the engine. It has a slightly wider inner opening than my buddies XC Tour, so theoretically there should be more than enough air flow for cooling.

I've tried most of HDEO oils. My opinion is that they are better than nothing. Shifting has always deteriorated quickly with HDEO's in my shared-sump bikes.

My favorite for maintaining slick shift quality in our sportbikes, is Motul 300V 4T, usually in 15w50.

I was really surprised by how quickly the shifting deteriorated. I know a bunch of Victory guys love T6 or T5 15w-40 and never complain about shifting feel. I will say I was running it pretty hard through the mountain passes (scraping floor boards on most turns, highway 40 from Empire to Winter Park, once in winter park I noticed the harder shifting) but my shifting wasn't overly aggressive. Still, I know things were getting hot and thats what kills oil.

M1 20/50 V-Twin. problem solved in hot weather.

I had the same problem with Rotella T6 in my motorcycle. Shifting gets really notchy after only a few thousand miles. I won't use Rotella again.
Try Mobil1 20W-50 V-Twin. It's a good oil and many on BITOG like it. My bike uses 10W-40 and I've run the Mobil 1 10W-40 Racing 4T for 6000 miles with great shift quality the whole time.

Ya, I'm probably going with M1 20w-50 V-Twin. Seems like most people here have reported almost zero shear (or is it sheer? lol) in even 5k oci's.

I'm curious if you guys know what sets the "V-Twin" and "4T" apart besides viscosity. I would assume the V-Twin would be designed to suite air cooled engines better and possibly more shear resistance due to the potential for V-Twin bikes being more torquey, being heavier and usually straight cut gears, ie higher loads. But I haven't able to find any info to confirm that. Either way both seem like great oils.

I'm curious about the Schaeffers V-Twin oil since I generally like most of their fluids I have tried in the past. Haven't seen any reports on here about it in bikes. I haven't checked prices but I do have a parts store locally that sell it that I am going to check out. I did change the oil again last night with the left over T6 to get me by until I get my next oil. Shifting is better, but I know what to expect and it wont be in there long.

 

[TacoFergie]

So I drained the oil last night after warming the bike up. When I was draining the oil I noticed it was VERY foamy, which clearly indicates that it has broken down and sheared heavily. I won't be running T6 in my Victory again. Here's a couple photos of my oil pan. You can see the larger collection of bubbles from directly under the drain plug where it was draining. All the stuff on the surface of the oil that looks like metallic stuff is actually foam. After about 5-10 min it had dissipated. The larger bubbles stayed around longer. This kind of concerns me, I hope there is no damage from foamed oil not lubricating well. I tend overthink things (hence why I am on this forum in the first place) and think the worst scenario, it's probably fine though. I'm very disappointed in the T6, especially after reading so many "rave" reviews. Some claim that syn oils in their Victory caused clutch slippage, but I did not experience that and it seems like they need to look at other possible issues mechanically. That's my opinion though. Maybe it was the extreme heat that caused it breakdown so fast? I don't know. Either way I have no confidence in it for my motorcycle now.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I don't mind Valvoline, but I do want to stick with something I can get locally just for ease of availability. I have seen the dino locally, but not syn. I have always preferred syn oils wherever I can use them.

I think I've seen the Valvoline synthetic M/C oil at my local Walmart too. You can also order it on Walmart and have it delivered to a store close to you if desired.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So I drained the oil last night after warming the bike up. When I was draining the oil I noticed it was VERY foamy, which clearly indicates that it has broken down and sheared heavily. I won't be running T6 in my Victory again. Here's a couple photos of my oil pan. You can see the larger collection of bubbles from directly under the drain plug where it was draining. All the stuff on the surface of the oil that looks like metallic stuff is actually foam.

The oil looks aerated/foamed a bit, which doesn't necessarily mean: "which clearly indicates that it has broken down and sheared heavily". It's a characteristic of the oil (anti-foaming agents) and maybe the engine design (how it "churns" oil).

If you have an oil level sight window, watch it as the bike warms up and after it's fully warm. Seems some bikes aerate/foam the oil when it's cold and thicker, and the air bubbles tend to disappears as the oil heats up and thins out.

 

[TacoFergie]

The oil looks aerated/foamed a bit, which doesn't necessarily mean: "which clearly indicates that it has broken down and sheared heavily". It's a characteristic of the oil (anti-foaming agents) and maybe the engine design (how it "churns" oil).

If you have an oil level sight window, watch it as the bike warms up and after it's fully warm. Seems some bikes aerate/foam the oil when it's cold and thicker, and the air bubbles tend to disappears as the oil heats up and thins out.

Mine does not have sight window, kinda wish it did. I suppose I was misspoken a bit there. My assumption is that if the anti-foaming agent is already degraded then I assume the oil is pretty degraded as well.

Before changing the oil last week before my trip I had 20w-40 Victory oil (semi-synthetic). I rode it around for about 15 min and drained the oil and changed the filter, there was zero foaming in that. I changed that since it was oil from spring of last season even though it only had maybe 2k miles, I just wanted fresh oil for a long trip. The pictures above are from idling for about 10 min and then draining the T6.

I've always been under the impression foaming could be pretty harmful since air does not lubricate. I'm not extremely well versed on motorcycle oils but I expected more out of T6 in my bike to be honest.

 

[02SE]

I was really surprised by how quickly the shifting deteriorated. I know a bunch of Victory guys love T6 or T5 15w-40 and never complain about shifting feel. I will say I was running it pretty hard through the mountain passes (scraping floor boards on most turns, highway 40 from Empire to Winter Park, once in winter park I noticed the harder shifting) but my shifting wasn't overly aggressive. Still, I know things were getting hot and thats what kills oil.

I've often wondered if the love for Rotella and other HDEO's, is just because the user hasn't experienced what better shifting is like when using some other oils?

Kind of like they don't know what they're missing.

 

[TacoFergie]

I've often wondered if the love for Rotella and other HDEO's, is just because the user hasn't experienced what better shifting is like when using some other oils?

Kind of like they don't know what they're missing.

It also makes me wonder if I just ride harder than most guys on cross country (came from a supermoto to this hog), the possible high temperatures with long ride times or a combo of both.

 

[BigCahuna]

I never liked the idea of using one oil to lubricate the entire motor, transmission and the clutch. I would expect shifting would suffer under those conditions. Harley on the other hand, doesn't use that same method. My '05 Road King's primary ( where the clutch is located) has had a steady diet of Rotella T for years without giving up shift performance. The transmission also has it's own lube, which can changed to whatever the owner likes. Am I wrong to think bikes that use one oil for everything, have a series of screens along with usual oil filter, to capture the metal whiskers, and clutch particles that can travel from the trans gears, thru-out the entire motor?.,,,

 

[ZeeOSix]

Am I wrong to think bikes that use one oil for everything, have a series of screens along with usual oil filter, to capture the metal whiskers, and clutch particles that can travel from the trans gears, thru-out the entire motor?.,,,

None of the street bikes that I have/had used any extra filtering screens in the engine oiling system ... just an oil filter, either spin-on or cartridge.

 

[TacoFergie]

I never liked the idea of using one oil to lubricate the entire motor, transmission and the clutch. I would expect shifting would suffer under those conditions. Harley on the other hand, doesn't use that same method. My '05 Road King's primary ( where the clutch is located) has had a steady diet of Rotella T for years without giving up shift performance. The transmission also has it's own lube, which can changed to whatever the owner likes. Am I wrong to think bikes that use one oil for everything, have a series of screens along with usual oil filter, to capture the metal whiskers, and clutch particles that can travel from the trans gears, thru-out the entire motor?.,,,

I know what your saying. It’s hard for a single oil to perform multiple tasks, especially when you take into account straight cut gears and high torque that easily causes shearing.

But on the flip side, the majority of motorcycles on the road are shared sump. Look at all the 180+hp sports bikes out there. They are all shared sump. The BMW K1600 has 160hp/129lb-ft and weighs 800lbs, though helical cut gears are easier on oil they are shared sump as well.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The BMW K1600 has 160hp/129lb-ft and weighs 800lbs, though helical cut gears are easier on oil they are shared sump as well.

The K1600 has helical cut transmission gears? Every cycle transmission I've seen has straight cut gears that slide on a splined shaft (no syncros), and gear "dogs" to lock into the adjacent gear during a shift

Car manulal transmissions have helical cut gears, but use syncros when meshing gears during a shift

 

[02SE]

When the Yamaha FJR 1300 was updated to a 6-speed, they also went to helical-cut gears.

 

[blupupher]

I have heard a lot of complaints about T6 thinning quickly since the last re-formulation, but usually from T6 5w-40 users, not 15w-40 (but really have not heard of a lot of people using T6 15w-40 either).

I have some Peak 15w-40 syn blend in my Goldwing that I am changing earlier than I was planning due to shifting issues (but only about 500 miles earlier than planned).
I was going to do a 5,000 mile interval, but in the past few hundred miles have noticed a marked difference in shifting. Still plan on using the same Peak oil (I have 3 more changes left of it), but will be doing a 4,000 mile interval instead.
I will go to Mobil 1 HM 10w-40 after that, but the Wing does not sound like it is as hard on oil as yours is.