Very over tightened drain plug

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Quick PSA about torque specs:

Torque specs are usually provided for lubricated and un-lubricated conditions. Lubricated threads typically have a spec about 30% lower than dry threads. [BTW: In the case of hardened materials and/or type of oil used, lubed specs can be as much as 50% less than dry specs]. The convention in mechanical engineering publications is that an unspecified torque spec is assumed to be a dry specification. When a range is specified, the low number is for lubricated conditions.

If you look at the drain plug torque specs here, some specify a range and some do not. Where ranges are specified, you'll notice (almost without exception) the low number is 30% lower than the high number.

http://www.hollonoil.com/OCH/Engine Drain Plug Torque Chart.pdf

When you tighten lubricated threads to dry specifications, you're over-tightening by at least 30%. Some food for thought: https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/torque-lubrication-effects-d_1693.html


Finally...

In my younger years as a mechanic, I did hundreds of oil changes and never used a torque wrench. After servicing the same cars a couple times per year over a period of many years (not to mention 4 decades of doing my own oil changes), I never had a problem with a drain plug (or oil filter) that I tightened being too tight or loose. How in the world anybody who works in a garage shop, can over-tighten a plug that way, is totally beyond me.

It seems these days, a torque spec and torque wrench for drain plugs is necessary. -Sad... At 60 y/o, I've done a lifetime of oil changes and am grateful it looks like I'll be doing lots more. Not looking forward to the day when someone else has to do it for me.


Ray
 
I use a torque wrench for putting the plug on, somehow settled on 26 lb-ft and have been good with that.
I tried tightening by feel twice before that and had slow drips...seems to me the OEM plugs are made out of poor quality metal and I felt they would distort easily.

I suspect that the problem with shops and drain plugs is lazy mechanics using air tools on them...I mean, if I can get a very tight fitting open end wrench to start spinning on the plug, how tight is that darned thing?!?!?
 
My opinion? If the topside extractor is working then keep with that route. Worst case is that you get the bolt out--and find the pan stripped, and then it turns into swapping the oil pan too. Less risk to leave alone if it's not leaking and you can easily work around it. Not sure what value this car is and if it's worth the effort, not if you are only change oil a couple times a year.
 
Originally Posted by supton
My opinion? If the topside extractor is working then keep with that route. Worst case is that you get the bolt out--and find the pan stripped, and then it turns into swapping the oil pan too. Less risk to leave alone if it's not leaking and you can easily work around it. Not sure what value this car is and if it's worth the effort, not if you are only change oil a couple times a year.

I think this is smart advice, but it just drives me nuts that I can't get the plug off!!!
I guess part of it is that I'd like to get the plug off just in case there is any crud at the bottom of the pan that could drain out, but, honestly, the extractor works really well in this car (2015 Impreza). My daughter hasn't put a lot of miles per year on it so far, so I just change it twice a year. I have to admit that the frustration factor in not being able to do something that should be a piece of cake drives me to get this damaged plug off and get the new one on there with proper torque. I guess I worry a little that she might have to take it to a shop on her own and there will be an issue with the mangled plug, but I'd imagine most places like that will have air tools that can get it off without a lot of trouble...and they would just jam the damaged plug back on or put a new (and possibly incorrect) plug back on way too tightly.
I have used the extractor on my own FXT a few times and I generally get less oil out from a bigger sump than in the Impreza, but last time I did much better for some reason. ???
 
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I think this is smart advice, but it just drives me nuts that I can't get the plug off!!!

I hear you. I have a stuck drain on the front diff on my truck.

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
The longer the extractor is used for oil changes, the deeper the muck gets at the bottom of the oil pan.

Not sure I agree--what muck is getting made if you change oil frequently? Err, at something other than never? Good oil should not be dropping "stuff" out of suspension; if anything, that is the job for the oil filter to deal with.

I did pull the oil pan off my 200k Camry this summer, and saw nothing. My old VW did 314k with the oil drain plug never being touched.

Oh yeah, and oil pans don't always drain everything out, there is often a smidge left anyhow. There and in the top of the cylinder head. Not sure I'd worry about it. Especially if it's an older car that doesn't have that much longer to go (? not sure what car this is for the op, maybe it's something new and thus worth the effort, dunno).
 
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
I think this is smart advice, but it just drives me nuts that I can't get the plug off!!!

I hear you. I have a stuck drain on the front diff on my truck.

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
The longer the extractor is used for oil changes, the deeper the muck gets at the bottom of the oil pan.

Not sure I agree--what muck is getting made if you change oil frequently? Err, at something other than never? Good oil should not be dropping "stuff" out of suspension; if anything, that is the job for the oil filter to deal with.

I did pull the oil pan off my 200k Camry this summer, and saw nothing. My old VW did 314k with the oil drain plug never being touched.

Oh yeah, and oil pans don't always drain everything out, there is often a smidge left anyhow. There and in the top of the cylinder head. Not sure I'd worry about it. Especially if it's an older car that doesn't have that much longer to go (? not sure what car this is for the op, maybe it's something new and thus worth the effort, dunno).


Do a 100K of oil changes at 8K each - then remove the metal oil pan for a look-see.
Been there - done that. But not with any of my vehicles.

The biggest tell-tale sign is checking the oil 500 miles after the oil change. Every time you do that inside of 100K, the oil gets blacker sooner & sooner. What used to take 2K to turn black, now takes LESS than 500 miles, all using the same oil and same viscosity.

One thing I don't do on this board is BS in lies..... and no, I'm not a pathological liar.
What purpose would that serve here at BITOG, in front of complete strangers?
If I read a thread that pertains to something inside my past (and the shoe fits), I will report a few of them as "proceed with caution"
 
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Reviving an old thread here...
The first time I went to change the oil in my daughter's car, I thought that I was having trouble getting my torque wrench on the drain plug because the plug sits at kind of a funny angle...her car also sits low to the ground and I didn't have a ton of room to work with it on ramps. I finally realized that the plug itself was damaged and the socket just wouldn't fit over it as a result. I used the extractor I already owned and decided to wait to fix it when the weather was nice out. Did one more change with the extractor over the winter.

In the meantime, I bought some sockets with hinges and figured they might help me adjust to the funny angle if that was actually part of the issue (have other uses for those, too).

Just did another change and the angle sockets didn't help because they still wouldn't fit onto the damaged plug...finally was able to force a regular open end wrench on over two less damaged sides of the plug and tried using my own strength and tapping with a hammer...not enough room to put much of an extension on the wrench. I thought I was finally making progress going at it with all my might, but I realized the wrench was starting to turn on the plug instead of turning the plug itself...not good. I figured that if I am getting a tight fitting wrench to start turning on the plug head with my own strength that a breaker bar wouldn't do any better, anyway.
Used the extractor again for the change, I am OK with that but would still like to get this damaged plug off and a new one on (already purchased and waiting in my oil change kit).

I am getting to my wit's end with this thing, IDK if maybe applying some heat to the plug might help??
I am wary of taking it to a shop to be fixed as I want to be sure that the pan itself is not damaged and am worried they will just overtorque a new plug again if they can get the old one off. I am pretty sure my wife took this car to Midas before I did my first change on it and I have told her to never go to that shop again.

I'd like to hear any suggestions, what I can do is probably limited by the small amount of room I have to work under this car. I tried jacking one side up for more room one time instead of using the ramps, but I didn't really feel any better doing that.

Yeah, you're in a pickle here...

Not saying that this happened, but with it being that hard to take off, I almost have to wonder if this was deliberate on the part of the tech/shop that put it on. I've heard horror stories of a vindictive tech welding or super-gluing a drain plug in place. Again, probably not the case here, but it certainly reminds me of the problem I had with the first oil change I ever did on my Fusion.

In my case, I found an impact socket at HF tools and very carefully and methodically hammered it onto the drain plug. I then worked at it a while with an extendable socket wrench until I was able to muscle the drain plug loose. It was replaced shortly thereafter with a new one. I think I kept the misshapen one on there for one oil change since I didn't have the replacement on-hand at the time. See my post above, or this pic to see what I was up against:
[Linked Image]

In your case, applying heat first would almost certainly be a prudent addition to the process as well. I almost also wonder if, as a last-ditch effort, drilling a hole down the center of the plug might also provide some benefit as well.. although if you do that, you're 100% committed. I suppose if you drill out a big enough hole, you can then just crush the plug at that point and pull out the pieces.
 
Totally forgot that I bought some locking pliers and was going to try one on the Impreza's drain plug if needed...not sure if I am going to want to being climbing under the car in (roughly) December when this car will likely need its next change.
I feel dumb that I forgot all about these, but I'm not sure how well they would have worked in the tight space and at the odd angle at which this plug sits. Should have at least checked it out...D'OH!!!
 
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Totally forgot that I bought some locking pliers and was going to try one on the Impreza's drain plug if needed...not sure if I am going to want to being climbing under the car in (roughly) December when this car will likely need its next change.
I feel dumb that I forgot all about these, but I'm not sure how well they would have worked in the tight space and at the odd angle at which this plug sits. Should have at least checked it out...D'OH!!!


As a standby, make sure you have some kind of universal drain plug in case the threads get stripped. A long time ago I used these with great success as we had many customers who never bothered to get the threads properly repaired. These work great but there are other kinds available. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfect-Parts-5-8-Universal-Flexible-Drain-Plug-Kit-Lot-of-5-NOS-Display/153052005905?hash=item23a29c4611:g:sTEAAOSwwwRbGEAb
 
Originally Posted by rollinpete
Just to many Idiots out there...

This should read on the headlines

Beware people ... shops armed with air tools... with people who don't know how to use them...



No need for air tools for oil changes...

thumbsup2.gif
 
I feel your pain, I had a drain plug on a golf cart , Subaru engine that always required an impact to loosen???
 
Originally Posted by RayCJ

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Totally forgot that I bought some locking pliers and was going to try one on the Impreza's drain plug if needed...not sure if I am going to want to being climbing under the car in (roughly) December when this car will likely need its next change.
I feel dumb that I forgot all about these, but I'm not sure how well they would have worked in the tight space and at the odd angle at which this plug sits. Should have at least checked it out...D'OH!!!

As a standby, make sure you have some kind of universal drain plug in case the threads get stripped. A long time ago I used these with great success as we had many customers who never bothered to get the threads properly repaired. These work great but there are other kinds available. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfect-Parts-5-8-Universal-Flexible-Drain-Plug-Kit-Lot-of-5-NOS-Display/153052005905?hash=item23a29c4611:g:sTEAAOSwwwRbGEAb

Thanks for the suggestion...I will check into it!
EDIT - I had no idea anything like this existed...makes a lot of sense to have something like this around just in case...thanks again!!
 
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