Like the old saying goes: "Thin oil gets there fast, but thick oil never left in the first place."
USA toyota lies about oil viscosity for 2GR-FE
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Yeah, specialy in HM engines. Thick won't fall out of the track ...
OMG..oMg...omG rofl
And here in EU Yota is using 5w30 Acea C3 oils for all their engines (Mobil1/Esso)....for 1.6...1.8...1.0...,...gasoline engines and 1.4...2.0....2.2...,... D4D diesels...
Oh my F... god
And here in EU Yota is using 5w30 Acea C3 oils for all their engines (Mobil1/Esso)....for 1.6...1.8...1.0...,...gasoline engines and 1.4...2.0....2.2...,... D4D diesels...
Oh my F... god
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Oil temperature is speed related, oil temperature rise with speed. In Europe, especially in Germany, a car can be driven at much higher speed than in North America, therefore oil grade is needed to be thicker to be able to withstand oil temperature north of 140-150C. Here we drive mostly 75-85 MPH, oil temperature is mostly around 100-110C or lower, therefore lighter weight is okay. xW30 at 100C is thicker than 15W40 at 140C and no thinner than 20W50 at 140C.
Mybe you are correct....
But than you buy Bmw M3 for instance....and you have it just for track racing...and.....OmG than .... americans will put 0W20 in engine again
Oil temperature is speed related, oil temperature rise with speed. In Europe, especially in Germany, a car can be driven at much higher speed than in North America, therefore oil grade is needed to be thicker to be able to withstand oil temperature north of 140-150C. Here we drive mostly 75-85 MPH, oil temperature is mostly around 100-110C or lower, therefore lighter weight is okay. xW30 at 100C is thicker than 15W40 at 140C and no thinner than 20W50 at 140C.
Mybe you are correct....
But than you buy Bmw M3 for instance....and you have it just for track racing...and.....OmG than .... americans will put 0W20 in engine again
...0W20 and 5W20 are grades reserved for hybrid vehicles here....like toyota prius etc..
low speeds..low distances....
low speeds..low distances....
EPA, CAFE mandates for emissions/MPG are the reason for the oil viscosity differences.
Seems ~50°F ambient for Yank engines is different from those operating in RoW locales with respect to appropriately mandated viscosity selections.
Who knew?
Who knew?
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Oil temperature is speed related, oil temperature rise with speed. In Europe, especially in Germany, a car can be driven at much higher speed than in North America, therefore oil grade is needed to be thicker to be able to withstand oil temperature north of 140-150C. Here we drive mostly 75-85 MPH, oil temperature is mostly around 100-110C or lower, therefore lighter weight is okay.
Here's a chart prepared by Honda in their research which reinforces your point.
US Vehicle utilisation is very predictable, and on the law of averages, they can specify something that will likely be suitable to the vast majority of users.
Unfortunately, US consumers don't like being told that, and therefore assume that their single grade is "optimal", and everyone else is wrong, or hasn't caught up with the Ox carts yet.
Other places, their utilisation is more diverse, so the law of averages means that you need to pick something that suits an extreme(r) end.
Oil temperature is speed related, oil temperature rise with speed. In Europe, especially in Germany, a car can be driven at much higher speed than in North America, therefore oil grade is needed to be thicker to be able to withstand oil temperature north of 140-150C. Here we drive mostly 75-85 MPH, oil temperature is mostly around 100-110C or lower, therefore lighter weight is okay.
Here's a chart prepared by Honda in their research which reinforces your point.
US Vehicle utilisation is very predictable, and on the law of averages, they can specify something that will likely be suitable to the vast majority of users.
Unfortunately, US consumers don't like being told that, and therefore assume that their single grade is "optimal", and everyone else is wrong, or hasn't caught up with the Ox carts yet.
Other places, their utilisation is more diverse, so the law of averages means that you need to pick something that suits an extreme(r) end.
So majority of US drivers is revving their cars around 1300-1600 rpms? I dont belive in that.....
Originally Posted By: Kamele0N
So majority of US drivers is revving their cars around 1300-1600 rpms? I dont belive in that.....
Do you believe in statistics ?
It's a percentile band...look at the middle top, there's 4% of total vehicle operation in the 3,000RPM full throttle range...there's a big blob around highway cruising speeds, and light to moderate throttle opening...surprise surprise.
Your lack of understanding of statistical information doesn't justify your lack of belief.
This is Honda, who use this information to recommend their oil viscosities in different markets, based on how those markets use their engines...
So majority of US drivers is revving their cars around 1300-1600 rpms? I dont belive in that.....
Do you believe in statistics ?
It's a percentile band...look at the middle top, there's 4% of total vehicle operation in the 3,000RPM full throttle range...there's a big blob around highway cruising speeds, and light to moderate throttle opening...surprise surprise.
Your lack of understanding of statistical information doesn't justify your lack of belief.
This is Honda, who use this information to recommend their oil viscosities in different markets, based on how those markets use their engines...
Thank You Shannow.
Now hopefully people understand why different oils are recommend in different markets.
I have seen this before, its always relevant.
Now hopefully people understand why different oils are recommend in different markets.
I have seen this before, its always relevant.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Your lack of understanding of statistical information doesn't justify your lack of belief.
This is Honda, who use this information to recommend their oil viscosities in different markets, based on how those markets use their engines...
Ok lets make things clear....
On left you have circle with US "style" of driving...correct?
With Autobahn........they are refering on german or at least EU way of driving.....I asume that because americans are using word "Highway" for that....Autobahn is 100% German word...
Circuit is "race" use....racing....
Done.....
And in "american" circle there is purple(pink? ) part in the middle with 5-9% on chart....and there is no "red" part with 9-10% on US part of circle.....so It looks that "majority" of US drivers is revving their cars within 1300-1600 rpms....
Your lack of understanding of statistical information doesn't justify your lack of belief.
This is Honda, who use this information to recommend their oil viscosities in different markets, based on how those markets use their engines...
Ok lets make things clear....
On left you have circle with US "style" of driving...correct?
With Autobahn........they are refering on german or at least EU way of driving.....I asume that because americans are using word "Highway" for that....Autobahn is 100% German word...
Circuit is "race" use....racing....
Done.....
And in "american" circle there is purple(pink? ) part in the middle with 5-9% on chart....and there is no "red" part with 9-10% on US part of circle.....so It looks that "majority" of US drivers is revving their cars within 1300-1600 rpms....
that chart was intended for a big powerful v6 or v8 engine. several hundreds of HP anyway.
Such a car would indeed for US highway use be mostly in the 1300-1600rpm band, as the top gear will be very tall.
A Mirage on the other hand will be doing 3000 RPM and with a lot more throttle opening (engine load)
Such a car would indeed for US highway use be mostly in the 1300-1600rpm band, as the top gear will be very tall.
A Mirage on the other hand will be doing 3000 RPM and with a lot more throttle opening (engine load)
What the chart tells me is one size doesn't fit all, as the fill cap and owners manual of several cars, trucks, and SUV's now sold in the USA leads me to believe. I still believe that matching the oil grade to the type of service the vehicle is going to be used under is a much better idea than the one size fits all mentality.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
What the chart tells me is .....
that now we can see why americans have such problems with valve deposits in their DI engines (with the combination of their less additivised fuel)
What the chart tells me is .....
that now we can see why americans have such problems with valve deposits in their DI engines (with the combination of their less additivised fuel)
the 2GR-FE in our 2011 sienna gets whatever i feel like at the time, including leftover shelf remnants which could have been anything from 5w50 to 0w20. it runs great and doesn't care, and neither do i, and neither should you.
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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
All I see is that the engine is able to tolerate a large viscosity range. I'd be more worried about using 20w50 than 0w20.
+1
Most engines are just fine with a wide range of grades.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
All I see is that the engine is able to tolerate a large viscosity range. I'd be more worried about using 20w50 than 0w20.
+1
Most engines are just fine with a wide range of grades.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I use 5w20 in engines we rebuild that require 5w20 with no problem.
so, why exactly do you keep rebuiding those 5W20 engines?
BTW, i don't know if you noticed, we are talking one specific engine. any rebuilds of that one?
I use 5w20 in engines we rebuild that require 5w20 with no problem.
so, why exactly do you keep rebuiding those 5W20 engines?
BTW, i don't know if you noticed, we are talking one specific engine. any rebuilds of that one?
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