Tightening drain plug and oil filter.

[Hazmat]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I do own a torque wrench, which I bought for a cylinder head.
I have never used it for either lug nuts/bolts or oil drain plugs.
I have never had any problem with either being too loose or too tight.
Torque is not always all that critical, although you will see good tire shops use a torque wrench, by hand, on the lugs for the final tightening.


It is statements like this that keep me working on my own cars and not taking them to grease monkeys to work on.
Torque is important. As a Mechanical Engineer I know this!
You may get away with it because the pressures and forces are not that great on an automobile, but you would never get away with this on other applications.
I can just imagine this attitude in a power plant, on an airplane, on a bridge, or etc... we would have things falling out of the sky and blowing up daily if they did things by "feel"

 

[Sayjac]

Drain plug, snug. Oil filter, hand tight with ~3/4 turn after gasket meets contact area. Check for leaks.

 

[fdcg27]

Or I may get away with since I have had many years of experience in maintaining and repairing the various American, Japanese, German and British cars I have owned, usually for many years and miles.
Most of us learn to use the tool appropriate to the job,
and a torque wrench is just not needed for every threaded fastener that has a torque spec attached to it.
You need to get out more, and talk to some actual working mechanics.
For that matter, since you mention aircraft, get with some experienced GA A&Ps.

 

[Hazmat]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Or I may get away with since I have had many years of experience in maintaining and repairing the various American, Japanese, German and British cars I have owned, usually for many years and miles.
Most of us learn to use the tool appropriate to the job,
and a torque wrench is just not needed for every threaded fastener that has a torque spec attached to it.
You need to get out more, and talk to some actual working mechanics.
For that matter, since you mention aircraft, get with some experienced GA A&Ps.


Actually, maybe you need to get out more. I have spent over 20 years working in industries that require proper specifications to be followed. They include Nuclear Power, Aircraft, Robotics, and military machine design. So maybe, I think I know a little about specifications and what is required of bolts.

I am glad you are happy being a shade tree mechanic.

Honestly the reason most people get by without a torque wrench is because in the lifetime of a car the oil will typically only be changed approx. 50 times. Each time a bolt is torqued beyond the specification it stretches the threads a little bit. Because the threads are stretched on an automobile a relatively low number of times it is unlikely that the threads will strip out unless someone really bears down on it.

So generally, you can get by doing it by feel....but what I am saying is .... if you have a torque wrench you there is no reason not to use it. You have to get a wrench out anyway...so what is the big deal with getting out the proper one.

THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB.

 

[Craig750]

I am with you Hazmat.

Seems like in life there are people that believe they are more capable than what the results or their methods show.

It does make me laugh that there are a lot of mechanics that can do better with a wrench than engineers with a torque wrench.

I worked with an ex aircraft fitter once. The guy was an amazing shonk when it came to method and execution of work.

It makes me think differently about passenger airlines.

 

[ZZman]

No torque wrench.

Drain Plug is snug.

Filter is hand tight.(Tight, not straining to make it as tight as possible)

 

[PurplePride]

Wow. Lots of testosterone flying here. While I use a torque wrench when I feel I need it, the thought that engineers and other highly educated fellas with better tools are somehow superior makes me think of all the brilliant things that have been utter failures causing death as a result of these brilliant enginers with proper tools.
Challenger? We got schematics for the solid rocket boosters in our lab after and saw a design that any rube could see was pathetic.
How about those highly engineered Toyota break/throttle systems?
I could list things all day, and m intent is not to rag on engineers and other educated folks as I am one myself. But also being "just a shade tree mechanic" all my life, I dislike very much some of the arrogant posts here.
If you think a guy with decades of experience can't sometimes match a dork with a great tool, you're a fool.
I use the right tool as often as I can, but don't get all hi-horse and disparage those who use other means.

 

[Gilstein]

we're talking about a drain plug, not nuclear physics or aircraft

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Michelob
Just wondered if any of you actually torque to specs the drain plug and oil filter?

One more vote for yes.
I use a new OEM fiber washer on the drain plug each time, torque to spec., and do the filter the number of turns past gasket contact that is spec'ed on the filter.
I use a filter cap-socket because of accessability...sometimes I go a little to the tighter side on the filter...but not too much.

 

[fdcg27]

Thank you, Purple Pride (OT, my guess is that you are an RP user?).
Experience allows you to perform a task quickly and easily.
You make certain rules which you follow for frequently done tasks, like oil changes, and you follow them to avoid error.
I've had a couple of engines apart, and you can bet that old torque wrench gets used, more to ensure even torque where critical, like a head, than to assure exact to-spec torque, since the wrench cannot be perfectly accurate.
I too was offended by some of the arrogance, and I responded in kind.
By education, I am an accountant, and my job relates closely to that.
I have shade treed cars for years, when I was young because that made it possible to drive interesting old cars, and later because it was habit, it remains entertaining, and because it is often easier just to go ahead and do it yourself, aside from being less costly.
Accountants are in general as anal as any engineer.

 

[demarpaint]

I do it by feel, never had a problem doing it that way. As far as the filters go I run them tight by hand, depending on location that is, then about another 1/4 turn with a wrench. They come off nice and easy and have never leaked. YMMV

 

[PurplePride]

I HAVE used RP, but my name here is in relation to being a Vikings fan
But it's ok either way.
I wasn't replying to you specifically, but the number of posts that seem to point to a superior mentality by some.
I ran a research facility at UCLA for 13 years, and I can tell you that some of the brilliant scientists I worked with couldn't tie their own shoes without help.
I don't like the inference that engineers, by definition, are better mechanics. I can do some amazing things with little in the toolbox. The best mechanics I know - aircraft, auto, motorcycle - can all do amazing things sans a $50k toolbox.
There are times where you absolutely need to do things to spec, by the book.
I suggest that this topic is not one of them, unless it's a racing machine, then the rules are completely different.

 

[PurplePride]

Originally Posted By: Gilstein
we're talking about a drain plug, not nuclear physics or aircraft


Oh, thanks for your insights. I wasn't aware that "nuclear physics" had oil drain bolts.
I believe it's a field of study.

 

[Gilstein]

the other "experts" are the ones who brought it into the discussion. No one asked about those applications, simply drain plugs and filters.

 

[Craig750]

Ok, throw me in the arrogant lot as well as fairy dust.

I apologise, I got that way by coming across too many idiots that were supposed to be good to excellent mechanics working in workshops.

I should be better than that and not let it make me try to do it better or criticise people who claim they're something when they are not.

Don't get me wrong, I have come across some good mechanics, but they are hard to find where I live.

Did I tell you about my VFR750 83 model that went in for the warranty cam and a failed guide replacement? I shopped around for the repair shop becasue I had this arrogant attitude that I have now back when I was a kid. Anyway I chose the biggest race team in Australia at the time and took it to their workshop. I even explained to them why I did. Well they didn't completely stuff up, did they? Just a minor stuff up putting the front rocker cover on back to front. I found out because it started leaking oil down the engine and left a pool of it after I parked the bike at home. Anyway it turns out the thing had big arrows on it and the word "front" as well. The service manual also had big warnings all the way through it. Just call me exceedingly unlucky and that I shouldn't be arrogant. After all it is just one of those life long "Punked" epsiodes right? And they're going to jump out of the wordwork one day and tell me.

 

[PurplePride]

So, did those top notch mechanics use a torque wrench? Are they engineers?
Hard to say what side of the argument your post supports.

 

[Fishhawk460]

I have been doing my own oil changes for 35 years and have never used a torque wrench on an oil drain plug or filter. I have also never overtightened the drain plug and stripped the threads. Make sure the surface of the pan and washer is clean and tighten it up snug. I have always tightened the oil filter by hand until snug and then tightened 1/4 turn with a wrench. Never had a leak in all that time.
Torque wrench on cylinder heads and intakes yes. Drain plugs? Come on!!!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Hazmat
So generally, you can get by doing it by feel....but what I am saying is .... if you have a torque wrench you there is no reason not to use it. You have to get a wrench out anyway...so what is the big deal with getting out the proper one.


What you say is true, but there are qualifications to that. First, there are lots of torque wrenches in people's toolboxes that are way out of calibration. Secondly, there are vehicles out there where torque specs are difficult to find without spending large dollars on a proper shop manual. When a shop manual price exceeds the price of an oil pan change, we're past the point of diminishing returns.

 

[tonycarguy]

All the cars I've worked on or seen have a drain plug spec of around 32-36 lb/ft, but I play it safe and torque to ~24. This is still plenty tight.

It takes a few extra seconds to use a torque wrench instead of a ratchet so why not...

 

[Vizzy]

I don't see WHY the big arguement with using a torque stick if you have one handy?

If you can prevent ANY problem with the correct specifications WHY in the world wouldn't you ?!



I don't have a torque stick so I usually hand tighten the dp and then using a hand wrench lightly tighten until I find resistance . This includes using a copper crush washer which usually is a great help in allowing you to guesstimate the correct torque.