The Repair Project II: engine locked while drivin

[Superflan]

Finally had a time to find these tooth missing:



I see 2 options here:

A- I replace timing belt kit and water pump, try to turn the engine by hand without spark plugs, it nothing collide I start the engine and see what happen

B- I have no chance and better remove cylinders head to see damage and plan repair

 

[WyrTwister]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enPNb8dxCZk

This topic comes up quite often. Last week, a 2002 Honda Civic with a 1.7L came in with a broken timing belt and I had time to shoot some video about what I do when a situation like this comes up. The tendency is to assume the worst, but I say hope for the best and try a new belt first before you go ripping cylinder heads off. Who knows, you might just get lucky.

D Serieis Timing Belt Video: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/honda-d-...

Link to Extended Version of this Video: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/premium-... Thanks for watching!

The best place for answers to your automotive questions: http://www.ericthecarguy.com Discussion about this video: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/1...

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If you are prepared to pull the head , if needed , Eric recommends installing a timing belt kit , first . You might get lucky .

If not , you will have needed to purchase those parts anyway .

Best of luck ,

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted By: andyd
I inverted the head on the bench and ran my 3 foot long carpenter's level along the flats with a light behind it. Not enough light to worry about is good. Really lit up is bad. So is anything you can stick a feeler gauge through.

I know they are milled but that is not a good straight edge, especially if it has ever seen a jobsite.
Originally Posted By: Superflan

I see 2 options here:

A- I replace timing belt kit and water pump, try to turn the engine by hand without spark plugs, it nothing collide I start the engine and see what happen

B- I have no chance and better remove cylinders head to see damage and plan repair


C- Purchase a USB borescope and use it to examine the pistons for marks from the valves hitting them. You can do this before you buy any parts and determine if it might be better to get a used head or engine or if you can get by with timing components. If you have to remove the head and get it machined, a used engine might not cost much more than that. I am not sure about a used head; I have read that it is a good idea to get the head milled whenever you do a HG. I am not sure if it that is just blanket advice originating from overheated engines, or the head warps slightly with use and needs to be squared up for the HG to seal. I've also heard of people lapping the head on a piece of glass with a giant sheet of sandpaper on it, but that is rather crude.

Was there any warranty on the timing belt service? If it went in 30k km and it was still under their warranty I would have pursued that before I opened it up.

 

[Superflan]

I hear you. Before investigating the issue, I looked for a used engine but I couldn’t find any available (a lot of same series engine but with major differences on peripherals and heads). In fact I found one rebuild engine for 3000€. At that price I buy another used car because this one doesn’t value this. But money is the concern, so repair is the only option.

If anything, I can get a ready to run refurbished head, complete with valve train for 600 bucks.

No warranty on the last belt service, occurred 4 years ago, I think ambient heat, sun, short infrequent trips and salty air caused the premature wear on belt.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted By: Superflan
I hear you. Before investigating the issue, I looked for a used engine but I couldn’t find any available (a lot of same series engine but with major differences on peripherals and heads). In fact I found one rebuild engine for 3000€. At that price I buy another used car because this one doesn’t value this. But money is the concern, so repair is the only option.

If anything, I can get a ready to run refurbished head, complete with valve train for 600 bucks.

No warranty on the last belt service, occurred 4 years ago, I think ambient heat, sun, short infrequent trips and salty air caused the premature wear on belt.


The advantage of the rust belt is that there are plenty of corroded heaps in the junkyard with intact engines. With a common car, you can get engines for really cheap if you pull it yourself from the yard. I've never done that but I think you can call yourself a enthusiast/hardcore level DIY mechanic if you are yanking mills from yard cars.

Honestly, I think belts can last wayyyy longer than 100k km, it is the tensioners or water pump that always fail and smoke the belt. Why would the belt just shear it's teeth like that?

 

[Superflan]

Honestly, I think inferior belt quality and parking all year in the sun, hot temperatures here cooked itself.

 

[Superflan]

For the yard engines, unfortunately I’ve done them all. Unable to find one that would bolt in. It’s a 10 years old cheap passenger car, that have been sold mainly with Diesel engines

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted By: Superflan
Honestly, I think inferior belt quality and parking all year in the sun, hot temperatures here cooked itself.


The replacement belt was probably already dry rotted when the shop put it on. What was the urge to change the original belt at 60k KM? Are French cars that finicky they need a new timing belt that often?

 

[Superflan]

Originally Posted By: pezzy669
The replacement belt was probably already dry rotted when the shop put it on. What was the urge to change the original belt at 60k KM? Are French cars that finicky they need a new timing belt that often?


If I was in charge of this car maintenance at the 60000km mark I would’ve let the OEM belt until 10 years or 120000km whichever comes first. That was the OEM recommendation for French market.

The thing is that we have a regional maintenance schedule far away from the France/Western Europe one: belts replacement interval are half shorter, OCI same, some brands are even telling that fuel filters must be replaced at each service. Same for air filter. I don’t listen on cars I plan to keep, I firmly believe that it’s a rip-off to sell more parts and labor at dealers. I change air filter and belts on the Europe schedule, fuel filter when getting old, and oil between severe and normal recommendations.

 

[Superflan]

Finally moved myself and bought a new belt, and a fresh starter battery. Will try to put it all on this month, if I manage to find time between work, kids, and household

 

[Superflan]

Finally fitted the belt, got the timing right, tension okay, cranking,,, no compression sound.

At least one valve per cylinder should be bent, I will remove head very soon and see damage.

If cylinders liners are not shot, will rebuild or swap head.

 

[Superflan]

Finally, some quick pics:

I replaced the 4 exhaust valves without bothering with lapping anything. Would you suggest a leak down test with which fluid?

 

[mk378]

It looks like #1 intake also hit the piston.

With the head upside down, turn the cam until both valves are closed and fill the cylinder area with water, see if it runs out through the valves.

Almost certainly you're going to have bad results putting new valves into an old head without matching them.

 

[Superflan]

So, here we are, up and running

no leaks on valves, had a stuck electronic throttle body that prevented us from getting the car to actually move on it's on power. One hour later it was solved. I'm at the end of the fuel tank I filled up (with a bottle of Wynn's injectors cleaner) on September 19th, 600km of daily driving, a third of it « spirited ».

So far it runs great, even with more low-end power than before the engine failure.

I'll say to people mechanically inclined that even if it's the first time doing that kind of job, just read a lot about it, take your time, and eventually you'll success.

Thanks everyone at bitog for your support